Caucasian and buckfast queens
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  1. #1
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    Jun 2017
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    Default Caucasian and buckfast queens

    I’m thinking about getting some Buckfast and Caucasian queens to graft from. Any input on queen breeders I should check out.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    Knoxville, Tennessee
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    https://www.therubees.com/ 239-258-1015 I have bought virgin buckfast queens from these folks and they are doing very well.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    I bought my Buckfast from Jason Bragg last year. You will have to be quick on Jan 1 when he puts them on his website, he will sell out immediately. https://newriverhoneybees.com/

  5. #4
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Don't see too many Caucasians around, Old Sol was using some from the WSU program as breeders, there's a few people here that have some of the II breeders out of WSU as well. PM me in March, and I'll let you know if mine is still kicking.

  6. #5
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    Jun 2017
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Don't see too many Caucasians around, Old Sol was using some from the WSU program as breeders, there's a few people here that have some of the II breeders out of WSU as well. PM me in March, and I'll let you know if mine is still kicking.
    Thanks I’ll definitely check those out and PM you in March.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthiesbees View Post
    I bought my Buckfast from Jason Bragg last year. You will have to be quick on Jan 1 when he puts them on his website, he will sell out immediately. https://newriverhoneybees.com/
    They seem to be there already!
    https://newriverhoneybees.com/shop?olsPage=products

    Small errors in Braggs pdf -presentations about what Brother Adam said about flying range of bees:
    To my knowledge Brother Adam had an experience where his black bees (the largest bee race of A.mellifera) flew 3,6 km, and rise of 400m, to get heather honey.
    After the black bees went extict he seldon had any crop from heather in his home apiary.

    Original Italian bee is smaller than black bee (A.m.m.)

    Bragg writes: "According to Brother Adam, he had bees that he knew flew five miles, but not the larger Italians"

  8. #7
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    May 2015
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    Skaneateles, NY
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    942

    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    They seem to be there already!
    https://newriverhoneybees.com/shop?olsPage=products

    Small errors in Braggs pdf -presentations about what Brother Adam said about flying range of bees:
    To my knowledge Brother Adam had an experience where his black bees (the largest bee race of A.mellifera) flew 3,6 km, and rise of 400m, to get heather honey.
    After the black bees went extict he seldon had any crop from heather in his home apiary.

    Original Italian bee is smaller than black bee (A.m.m.)

    Bragg writes: "According to Brother Adam, he had bees that he knew flew five miles, but not the larger Italians"
    website just says out of stock for the 2019 queens when i look

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by aran View Post
    website just says out of stock for the 2019 queens when i look
    yes, this year he is letting people "shop" to figure out what they want to buy when he adds the stock on Jan 1. Last year I was trying to decide between the different ones, and the mated ones sold out before I could make a selection. I ended up buying 4 virgins of different varieties. In the end, it worked out well for me and I'll probably do the same again this year so the queens are locally mated. The virgins are available a month earlier than the mated ones and you have a couple other choices, like Caucasian, at least I did last year.

  10. #9
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    Nov 2009
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    St Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    There isn't any history on New River's site. How long have they been in operation? There's a blog post about taking a Beekeeping 101 class in March of 2018... A certification in I.I. in March of 2018... Lots of 'name brand' bee strains one can buy. Lot's of facebook activity... Page went live in 2017... pictures of new hives, new gear, new bee suit, new gloves... Is this a new business and a new(ish) beekeeper?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
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    West Virginia
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    5

    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    My queen breeding business is three years old, but I've been keeping bees on and off for 30 years. Taking breaks for college, etc.. I attended the Beekeeping 101 class because it is a requirement to partner with the Appalachian Beekeeping collective, no matter how many years experience you have they require you take that class. I also wanted to review the class. I thought it was very well done. I don't wear bee gloves.. Sometimes thin nitrile gloves, but don't even own beekeeping gloves. I was trained and officially certified in "Advanced" ii in March 2018 by Garrett Dodds (USDA ARS), but had already been doing ii for some time before that. Garrett's class required that you already been doing ii successfully before admittance to his class. Hope this helps!

    Thanks,
    Jason Bragg
    New River Honey Bees

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Thanks, Jason, for joining the forum and letting the other beekeepers know about your business. I already placed my 2019 order with Jason and drool over the breeder queens he also has on his page. Maybe one day, I'll get there. For now, I'm thankful for the smaller queen rearing operations that can provide us backyard beekeepers with quality queen stock. At the end of this month, my bee group will be hosting a class on queen rearing for the backyard beekeeper in hopes that we can get more local beeks to graft a small group of queens each year from their overwintered stock to provide to the other local beekeepers.

  13. #12
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    Sep 2017
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    West Virginia
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Thanks for letting me know that I might have an error in my info. Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to know Brother Adam, so much of the info that I get about him I have to rely on what I've read. The particular fact that you mention above basically comes from Michael Bush's website at http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm If this fact isn't correct I'll be more than happy to correct it in my pdf if you can point me to where I can find the correct info? or which of Brother Adam's books I can find the correct info in?

    Here's the quote from www.bushfarms.com :

    "How far do foragers fly?
    According to Brother Adam he had bees he knew flew five miles (8km) or more to gather Heather nectar. According to Huber, he marked workers, took them different distances and released them and looked for them to turn back up at the hive. He said they always found their way back when they were 1 1/2 miles (2.5km) from the hive, but past that they didn't. He also says, and it makes sense, that it would depend on the foraging available. It also seems to vary by bee size. Brother Adam says his native Apis Mellifera mellifera, which were smaller, flew the five miles (8km) to get the Heather, but the Italians he replaced them with, which were larger, would not. Dee Lusby says her small cell bees, after regression, came back with totally different pollens than before and that based on the blooms and the spread of flora that depend on pollination she's confident that the small cell bees forage much further than the large cell bees. This would be consistent with Brother Adam's observations."

    Thanks!
    Jason Bragg
    New River Honey Bees

  14. #13
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    West Virginia
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthiesbees View Post
    Thanks, Jason, for joining the forum and letting the other beekeepers know about your business. I already placed my 2019 order with Jason and drool over the breeder queens he also has on his page. Maybe one day, I'll get there. For now, I'm thankful for the smaller queen rearing operations that can provide us backyard beekeepers with quality queen stock. At the end of this month, my bee group will be hosting a class on queen rearing for the backyard beekeeper in hopes that we can get more local beeks to graft a small group of queens each year from their overwintered stock to provide to the other local beekeepers.
    Thanks Ruth! Apparently I had joined once before a while back but had forgotten, because it made me go through the whole "forgot your password" process. I didn't remember joining, lol.. I don't have a whole bunch of time to keep up with several different types of social media so usually just use Facebook. I decided though that this year I'm going to also try and grow my YouTube Channel and post new vlog videos pretty often. I need to learn this forum and start using it also.

    Jason

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by jsnbrgg View Post
    Dee Lusby says her small cell bees, after regression

    Personally, I'd be a bit hesitant of quoting Dee Lusby in reference to the expected behavior of EHB.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  16. #15
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    West Virginia
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Personally, I'd be a bit hesitant of quoting Dee Lusby in reference to the expected behavior of EHB.
    I thought I was quoting Michael Bush (who I guess was quoting Dee Lusby).. LOL

    Jason

  17. #16

    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by jsnbrgg View Post
    If this fact isn't correct I'll be more than happy to correct it in my pdf if you can point me to where I can find the correct info? or which of Brother Adam's books I can find the correct info in?
    Size of beeraces:

    Friedrich Ruttner "Naturgeschichte der Honigbienen" Auflage 2003, page 63

    Dadant Publications, "Hive and the HoneyBee" , revised edition 1992 (second printing), page 32

    Flying distance:

    Brother Adam "Breeding the Honeybee" first English edition 1987, page 59

    same info in another book
    "Meine Betriebsweise" 4. erweiterte Auflage 1978, page 65

  18. #17
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    West Virginia
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Size of beeraces:

    Friedrich Ruttner "Naturgeschichte der Honigbienen" Auflage 2003, page 63

    Dadant Publications, "Hive and the HoneyBee" , revised edition 1992 (second printing), page 32

    Flying distance:

    Brother Adam "Breeding the Honeybee" first English edition 1987, page 59

    same info in another book
    "Meine Betriebsweise" 4. erweiterte Auflage 1978, page 65

    Awesome! Thanks!

    Jason

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Jason, thanks for coming on to clarify. I appreciate it.

    Adam

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by jsnbrgg View Post
    "How far do foragers fly?

    According to Brother Adam he had bees he knew flew five miles (8km) or more to gather Heather nectar.
    I too have had bees fly 5 miles to forage. 1986 was the worst year ever for honey production. 86'd in 86. 2.5 ton from 800 colonies. The year I borrowed 70,000 to buy the orchard's bee operation. A Saudi prince had set up an hydroponic endive farm. To prepare the soil, they planted buckwheat. I had an apiary, 5 miles from the closest buckwheat field, store buckwheat honey.

    Not small cell bees.

  21. #20
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    Redwood City, CA
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    Default Re: Caucasian and buckfast queens

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicksotherhoney View Post
    I’m thinking about getting some Buckfast and Caucasian queens to graft from. Any input on queen breeders I should check out.
    Not sure about the Caucasian's, but true Buckfast can get very defensive around and F3. I've had several breeders warn me. Something to think about.

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