Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ? - Page 80
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  1. #1581
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jasper, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Hope your season close-out efforts are going well. You all had a good Fall flow down there?
    Would not call it good. AFAIK this area of Georgia never has a strong fall flow. Got rain recently so there is at least some flow and the bees seem happy. Was in two hives this weekend and noted lots of stores, both green syrup and honey.

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  3. #1582
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Northern Il, USA
    Posts
    929

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Thanks, AR1. The current three year experiment is without any treatments of any kind, either mechanical or chemical. I am not dogmatic about this, just decided to start with simple first and see what develops.
    That's what I thought, just wanted to verify.
    4 of my hives now have shop towels with oxalic. That's a first for me but I have tried Apivar a few times. Currently 4 hives with towels and 4 without.

    Next week I will do some deep diving to see what there is to see.

  4. #1583
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    2,454

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    As usual, good stuff!

    2. There does not appear to be a linear correlation between time and number of mite drops
    one of the reasons it has fallen by the wayside as a method, daily count can swing up or down by a factor of 2
    88.jpg
    89-1.jpg
    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/tag/alcohol-wash/
    Amazingly, #1910 still shows no outward signs of mite stress and these evaluations underscore for me the complex interaction between tolerance and resistance.
    Arguably #1910 exhibits both the highest percentage of mite damage and the most significant damage on the mites themselves but they continue to have high mite drops two evaluations in a row.
    perhaps
    2nd issue with NMF is you have to compare apples to apples... same pop size, same amount of brood, etc. it doesn't give you a % witch makes hive to hive comparison
    3rd issue is it measures mites on the floor, not mites on the bees. #1910 as an example. They are biters, the grooming may be knocking off a high number of undamaged mites giving you more on the sticky board and less on the bees compared to the other hives, so there mite load could be lower as the mites may be ending up on the board

    Your doing a lot of work to record you data. I would offer the suggestion to collect better data, a shake or wash.. wash prefered, but I get why some don't like it.
    it would be particularly interesting to know the wash numbers of #1910 as that would tell you weather or not they indeed have tolerance (living with a high mite load) or resistance (keeping the mite load down). That knowledge will help you with breeding choices
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  5. #1584
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    2,127

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Bagwell View Post
    Got rain recently so there is at least some flow and the bees seem happy. Was in two hives this weekend and noted lots of stores, both green syrup and honey.
    Glad to hear it, William. Best of success to you in getting your hives set-up for Winter.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  6. #1585
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    2,127

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    Currently 4 hives with towels and 4 without.
    Understood. Hopefully you are able to derive a reliable method in the future to determine which colonies need a little help and which don't so you can see how your lines do in the absence of treatment. Best of luck to you in getting things closed-out.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  7. #1586
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    2,127

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    Your doing a lot of work to record you data. I would offer the suggestion to collect better data, a shake or wash.. wash prefered, but I get why some don't like it.
    it would be particularly interesting to know the wash numbers of #1910 as that would tell you weather or not they indeed have tolerance (living with a high mite load) or resistance (keeping the mite load down). That knowledge will help you with breeding choices
    MSL:

    Thank you for your detailed and helpful feedback. I sincerely appreciate it. I enjoyed the Randy Oliver article, and I was particularly interested to note how his 24-hour mite drop results compared to the alcohol wash- makes intuitive sense to me.

    I think you are absolutely right that a wash would be a much better tool for evaluation. I suppose I always figured it would be a more time-intensive method than the mite drop counts, but I am certain that I spend more than the 4 minutes per hive collecting data that Randy suggests he can do a mite wash in.

    There is no doubt that the NMF (Natural Mite Fall Method- I had to look that one up) suffers from the huge limitation of not telling you anything about the hive population and thus does not directly tell you anything about the infestation rate.

    That said, I do hold out hope that over time it may represent an analog that serves as a first-pass evaluation tool that likely should be augmented with a corresponding wash on promising colonies- because as you rightly point out I am only left to hope and speculate about #1910 with no other baseline information to compare against.

    Thanks again for the input- I appreciate it.

    Rus
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  8. Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post

    In this way I see so many parallels between guitar playing and beekeeping. After almost 30 years at it, there are still many days that I am tempted to throw my flattop against the wall in disgust- and then I will learn a new skill or overcome a long-held hurdle and it makes all the investment worth it.

    I expect it won't be any time at all, and you will be playing every bit as well as Roy Clark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxDQQDF6j0Y
    I have almost 40 in guitar and I've yet to run into anyone who doesn't want to burn their stuff occasionally. From the start I've been amazed that something you practice and absolutely cannot get will often be possible a week later, when the only thing you've done is sleep.

    Here's a preview clip we do before the streaming service at church a while back. https://www.instagram.com/p/BqN0kG7Fwfh/ (shameless plug)

    I had a friend who was ripped like an Olympian. He said his childhood friends would ask what the best exercise routine was for this or that. He always answered something you really enjoy doing 3 times a week, doesn't matter what. That will yield results. If you don't like it, you won't do it. With guitar, 5 minutes a few set days a week will do more good than 8 hours straight once a month. Grandpa (who taught choirs to read shape notes decades ago) said, "Your talent is your want to." Roy Clark is a loftier goal than I ever set, but you can be good, and 60 years will not stop you. Record yourself and record again in 4-5 months. You and everyone else will be amazed with your progress!

    As for bees, I enjoy them, but still kill them frequently. I hope you are right Litsinger, and some discipline starts translating.

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