Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ? - Page 79
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  1. #1561
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    4,799

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Around here, the partridge pea is really enticing to the bees just now.
    .....
    I may be seeing some of this around - did not know what it was.
    But only a little.

    I spied a not managed, trashy water way in a new construction area close by - need to go there few times this fall and spread some seeds of insect value (clovers and such). Should make for a good pasture.
    During the droughts (like we have now here), any moist lowland becomes of value.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #1562
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    ... need to go there few times this fall and spread some seeds of insect value (clovers and such).
    GregV:

    Thank you for your reply. I apologize for my delay as I haven't had nary a moment to visit the forum recently. I think the idea of helping to 'nudge' along more pollinator habitat is a great idea, particularly when it is flora that is native or adaptive to our respective locations.

    For my part, I need to go check the Common Milkweed pods at my neighbor's farm soon as I have inventions of dispersing this seed in my pollinator habitat on my place. It looks to be about ready.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  4. #1563
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    The Fall Flow is officially on here in Western Kentucky. While the Late Goldenrod has not really come into it's own just yet, the Boneset is blooming profusely and the bees are working it heavily throughout the day.

    Most colonies also appear to be moving along with some brood rearing as well and are bringing in a steady supply of Ragweed pollen.

    I feel for those here on the forum who have had a dry year. For us, it has been a very favorable Summer after a good and protracted Spring with timely rains all along the way- as such, most farmers in our region are expecting bumper crops.

    At present, we are sitting at about eight inches above-normal rainfall year-to-date and I have thankfully been able to avoid any supplemental feeding to-date.

    Most of my beekeeping efforts of late have been devoted to getting more woodenware appropriately prepared and painted in time for Winter preps as I have eight hived swarms that currently occupy boxes of various improvised means such as inner covers for bottom boards and plywood cut-offs for lids.

    Planned next steps beyond properly outfitting the swarms will include a 48 hour mite drop assessment near the Autumn Solstice and a harvest and distribution of resources by early October- The long-range forecast suggests a colder and wetter October than average for us.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  5. #1564
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Northern Il, USA
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    922

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Been very similar here, plenty of rain, nicely timed. The last few weeks have been very dry, but we just got a decent shower.

    I laughed at your 'improvised' materials like plywood for tops. That's almost my standard. I ran out of tops, bottoms and deeps. Way behind on materials. Hope to have more time this fall and winter to catch up.

  6. #1565
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,321

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Russ
    It sounds like you described my area fall flow position and bloom stage.
    Look busy don't they?

    I did mow in front of the hives finally after this pic. but have not weed eatered it yet.
    Thanks for the report.
    Cheers
    gww
    Attached Images Attached Images
    zone 5b

  7. #1566
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    1,710

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Russ


    "Most of my beekeeping efforts of late have been devoted to getting more woodenware appropriately prepared and painted in time for Winter preps as I have eight hived swarms that currently occupy boxes of various improvised means such as inner covers for bottom boards and plywood cut-offs for lids."

    this is the norm for fall, every thing some what in use and few non standard one to boot.
    No Worries you will have some stuff in the spring to use.

    GG

  8. #1567
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    I need to go check the Common Milkweed pods at my neighbor's farm soon as I have inventions of dispersing this seed in my pollinator habitat on my place. It looks to be about ready.
    This week, I was able to harvest a respectable number of Common milkweed pods along with some Wild bergamot, Illinois bundleflower and Joe-Pye weed seed for frost seeding this Winter.

    Our local Private Lands Biologist with the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife came by and declared last year's conservation cover planting a success. He was not so complementary of the pollinator habitat planting however, saying it will be best to execute a controlled burn on it this Winter to minimize cool-season growth and encourage establishment of the warm season grasses. The bees are really digging the Boneset (technically Thoroughwort) right now, however...

    Milkweed Seed.jpg Conservation Cover.jpg Pollinator Habitat.jpg
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  9. #1568
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    I laughed at your 'improvised' materials like plywood for tops. That's almost my standard.
    AR1:

    No disrespect intended at all regarding the use of alternative means to put hives together. If you know any engineers, you know that we thrive on order and consistency- so the new bottom boards and lids are more for me than they are for the bees...
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  10. #1569
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Look busy don't they?
    Looking good, GWW. Glad to see that things are shaping-up for you to have a decent fall flow.

    Did any of your hives with brood issues pull through? Have you noticed any similar issues emerging in your hived swarms?

    How's your guitar playing coming along?
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  11. #1570
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    No Worries you will have some stuff in the spring to use.
    Thank you for the reply, GG. Should I take your message as prophetic?
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  12. #1571
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Russ
    Did any of your hives with brood issues pull through? Have you noticed any similar issues emerging in your hived swarms?

    How's your guitar playing coming along?
    I still have one that is bringing in pollen with less traffic and need to look inside.
    I added a bad super of comb to the other small swarm and it did have some deformed bees on the inter cover but I did not look at the brood. I did take 7 more gal of honey and so only got 9 this year but did leave 5 gal on two of the bigger swarms as my hedge hives encase the rest of the hive don't gather well during fall flow. So I can't make a mistake on those two unless they run out of room and swarm in fall. I will look at the others oct first and hoping not to feed again. I will look sometime soon at the one problem hive I have left with my fingers crossed.


    Guitar? I am still working every day and have made some improvement. My memory hurts me even on songs I know the chords on due to just losing track as I play. It is harder then I thought it would be but I keep pegging along. I am very inconsistent. Some times I think I am good and most times I think I am bad. One month in playing every day. No playing scales for me yet, just practice on songs.
    I am sure I could learn a lot from you.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  13. #1572
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    I will look at the others oct first and hoping not to feed again. I will look sometime soon at the one problem hive I have left with my fingers crossed.
    GWW:

    I do apologize for my delay in reply- I have been away from the computer of late. It sounds like win, lose or draw going forward you will still be near parity going into Winter relative to last year? I'd say all-in-all that's not too bad.

    I always like to keep tabs on your management decisions and timing as I know once I read you are doing something (i.e. Fall feeding) I need to be thinking about it to- so I do appreciate you posting your updates.

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Some times I think I am good and most times I think I am bad. One month in playing every day. No playing scales for me yet, just practice on songs.
    In this way I see so many parallels between guitar playing and beekeeping. After almost 30 years at it, there are still many days that I am tempted to throw my flattop against the wall in disgust- and then I will learn a new skill or overcome a long-held hurdle and it makes all the investment worth it.

    I expect it won't be any time at all, and you will be playing every bit as well as Roy Clark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxDQQDF6j0Y
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  14. #1573
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    I finally had the opportunity to read the ‘Heritability estimates of the novel trait ‘suppressed in ovo virus infection’ in honey bees (Apis mellifera)’ report recently published in Scientific Reports:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-71388-x

    It is a bit of a dense read but they concluded, … we discovered a new trait that renders honey bee eggs free of virus infection. We used the term ‘suppressed in ovo virus infection’ and demonstrated that the trait is heritable through the genotype of the queen, and not that of the worker, and can be expressed against several viruses simultaneously or against each of the viruses individually. The estimated heritability seems to be moderate with a value of about 0.25. The trait has a beneficial effect on the virus load of the colony as a whole with fewer and less severe DWV infections and its implementation into breeding programs is recommended.

    This obviously would suggest a genetic basis for increased varroa tolerance in selected populations.

    When one digs in deeper however, two other interesting observations were note-worthy to me:

    1. The trait does not make colonies immune to the viruses, but appears to assist in keeping them at survivable levels-

    We hypothesized that the virus status of the egg is a reflection of the health status—and by extension of the immune potential—of the queen, though we never verified this. As this study was interwoven in a running breeding program, in which breeders tested the offspring of their most precious queens, this was impossible to do. However, we did verify what the SOV trait means in terms of virus infections in the different developmental stages and castes of the colony. And the outcome was very promising: it seems that the honey bee egg holds the key of resilience to virus infection. The SOV trait provides no sterile immunity against viruses as they are still present, but some yet unknown mechanism seems to avoid that later exposures to—for instance—DWV will end with harmful infection levels.

    2. The presence of the SOV trait may represent increased tolerance for one virus (i.e. DWV) in exchange for a reduced tolerance of another (i.e. ABPV)-
    The occurrence of DWV and SBV in eggs was considerably lower in the DV-Q subgroup as compared to the DV + Q (descendants of virus-positive queens) and UQ subgroups. That was not the case for ABPV and BQCV (Fig. 1). And we found the most ABPV, DWV and SBV, in the DV-Q, UQ and DV + Q subgroups, respectively.

    Figure 1.jpg
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  15. #1574
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Russ
    I will never play as good as roy clark. In the bible it indicates that I only have about 120 years to do things and over half is over and my actions worked on bringing the other half down to a reasonable number. In conclusion, not enough time left threw in with not enough starting ability.

    Every once in a while, I do wake up and find something easier then it was when I went to bed and I am amazed at how that can happen.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  16. #1575
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    In conclusion, not enough time left threw in with not enough starting ability.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.beesource.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

    Every once in a while, I do wake up and find something easier then it was when I went to bed and I am amazed at how that can happen.
    Cheers
    gww
    This I understand, GWW. It is good for us to number our days and recognize all the good we enjoy comes from the LORD.

    As it says in Psalm 90:10- As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years,
    Or if due to strength, eighty years,
    Yet their pride is but labor and sorrow;
    For soon it is gone and we fly away.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  17. #1576
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Today I completed the Fall 48-hour mite drop and mite damage assessments for the seventeen colonies currently housed on screened bottom boards as attached.

    A few observations:

    1. Using the wise breeding stock evaluation criteria suggested by MSL, if I were to consider propagating any lines based strictly on low mite population growth over time it appears that #1803, #1907 and #1911 are the most promising.

    2. There does not appear to be a linear correlation between time and number of mite drops. This time I carefully recorded mite drops on all colonies at both 24 and 48 hours and while the results are all over the place, two things emerged:

    A. One cannot assume that the 48 hour drop will be double the 24 hour drop.

    B. Colonies with low/high 24 hour drops will have low/high 48 hour drops.

    3. From outward observations, the only two colonies currently exhibiting any visible signs of mite trouble are #1804 (crawlers) and #2007 (damaged drone larvae on the bottom board). Amazingly, #1910 still shows no outward signs of mite stress and these evaluations underscore for me the complex interaction between tolerance and resistance.

    4. While I completed mite damage assessments with the microscope, I am a little more circumspect about either how to interpret these data or how to use it in any potential propagation decisions. Specifically, there are two things that give me pause:

    A. Significant mite damage does not necessarily equate to low mite population growth. Arguably #1910 exhibits both the highest percentage of mite damage and the most significant damage on the mites themselves but they continue to have high mite drops two evaluations in a row.

    B. There appears to be little consensus on what ultimately constitutes a damaged mite. In our specific case I observe many mites which appear to have either damaged or a completely removed gnathosoma (mouthparts): https://idtools.org/id/mites/beemite...php?name=15249

    When asking around, I get conflicting information as to how to count this in the absence of other obvious mite damage. For what it is worth, I have confirmed with Dr. Brock Harpur that they basically ignore the mouthparts for the purposes of their evaluations but that others seem to put more weight into evaluating different mite damage mechanisms: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0179329

    For now, I will continue to keep noting what I see and attempt to be proactive in the event of any collapsing colonies.

    Otherwise, I currently have ten other colonies with solid bottom boards and so they remain a proverbial 'pig in a poke' for now.

    48-Hour Mite Drops.pdf Mouthparts.jpg Live Mite 3.jpg Live Mite 4.jpg Damage Categories.jpg
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  18. #1577
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    Feb 2017
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    Northern Il, USA
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    922

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Nice to see someone with a engineering bent being numerical. I am too scatterbrained to be this methodical.

    Was this mite drop count with the bees as is, or was it following a treatment of some sort?

  19. #1578
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jasper, Georgia, USA
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    118

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Thanks for this. Have been counting mites on sticky boards for months but only seriously recording counts for about three weeks. Daily whenever possibly for the one with high counts (28 average) and less often for the others (1 - 6 average)

    Have observed sudden spikes that last several days so would not be comfortable relying on less frequent checks this time of year. Will try to post some data in my thread soon.

  20. #1579
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    Was this mite drop count with the bees as is, or was it following a treatment of some sort?
    Thanks, AR1. The current three year experiment is without any treatments of any kind, either mechanical or chemical. I am not dogmatic about this, just decided to start with simple first and see what develops.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  21. #1580
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by William Bagwell View Post
    Will try to post some data in my thread soon.
    Thanks, William. I will look forward to comparing notes with you.

    Hope your season close-out efforts are going well. You all had a good Fall flow down there?
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

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