Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ? - Page 71
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  1. #1401
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    Apr 2017
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Russ, I suppose when it comes to bees, 'caveat emptor" is a phrase we all should keep in mind. From the newest miracle bee to the type of hive we use, the best thing these "innovations" do is separate the gullible from their money. Reminds be of the micacle weight loss pills. Buy these pills from me and watch the fat melt away with no exercise. Yeah, right. Beekeeping takes work, just like weight loss. Maybe I should write a book, "How to Work Hard and Keep Your Bees Alive". I doubt that it would sell well.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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  3. #1402
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Northern Il, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Reminds be of the micacle weight loss pills. Buy these pills from me and watch the fat melt away with no exercise.
    Took care of a lady (I'm a nurse) with a bad heart. Doctors couldn't figure out why a 30-something woman had a heart that bad. One of the nurses went back through her old charts and discovered that she had been taking diet pills for 10 YEARS! Amphetamines. Pro tip: Don't take diet pills, meth or cocaine if you want to keep your heart.

  4. #1403

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    Took care of a lady (I'm a nurse) with a bad heart. Doctors couldn't figure out why a 30-something woman had a heart that bad. One of the nurses went back through her old charts and discovered that she had been taking diet pills for 10 YEARS! Amphetamines. Pro tip: Don't take diet pills, meth or cocaine if you want to keep your heart.


    Is she better now?

  5. #1404
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    Jun 2018
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    I would love to try Russian queens, but am fundamentally opposed to paying money for anything. :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Not buying - the fundamentals of my approach.
    Thank you for your feedback, AR1 and GregV.

    You'll get no argument from me on this point- I am a real miser myself.

    Good luck to you both in the coming season.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  6. #1405
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    Jun 2018
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Maybe I should write a book, "How to Work Hard and Keep Your Bees Alive". I doubt that it would sell well.
    Good analogy, JW. I appreciate your feedback. Maybe the sequel could be titled, "Beekeeping: Perfect for those who Love Work and Hate Money".

    Best of success with your beekeeping efforts this season- and good luck with the walk-away splits. Here's hoping all the queens are in the boxes you wanted them in.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  7. #1406
    Join Date
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Not buying - the fundamentals of my approach.
    I would love to try Russian queens, but am fundamentally opposed to paying money for anything. :-)
    I totally get that,been there
    but I would suggest "buying better bees " was beekeeping 101 3k years ago, and little has changed now
    Tel Rehov, shows us this from 3k years ago , the "Italian bee" revolution shows it in our past, and Webster/Comfort shows us this in the present in the TF context
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  8. #1407
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    .....I would suggest "buying better bees " ......
    The issue is I am yet to see a "better bee" for my exact location.
    Massive dump of "Russian bee" derivatives could be a good approach to create our local "better bee".

    But most beeks have been spoiled with the Italian/Carni mildness and keep importing these (with predictable annual die off).
    Heavy annual dilution here by the pollination by-product seem to be trumping most all TF efforts.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #1408
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    Feb 2017
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    Northern Il, USA
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    615

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post


    Is she better now?
    No way to know. Once out patients leave hospital we don't see them again until they get sick again. At her age, if she avoided smoking, alcohol and drugs she would have a good chance of recovering much of her heart function.

  10. #1409
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    When I have some more time, I'll follow with my 2020 apiary goals.
    Here on the first full day of Spring, the forage landscape is beginning to really expand here in Western Kentucky.

    Thankfully it appears that all twelve colonies from last year are going to pull through so I continue to plan and work towards my goals for 2020, which are generally as follows:

    1. Continue to have fun- In this my third season of beekeeping as an adult, I still find it intellectually-satisfying and rewarding. I hope beekeeping never becomes a chore.

    2. Expand the apiary count to 20- I have 12 swarm traps out and continue to approach my efforts from the mindset that I am in expansion mode.

    3. Continue experimenting with systematic comb renewal- I may be tilting at proverbial windmills, but I am going to give the 'Rose Hive Method' a go this year and see what happens.

    4. Make up two nucs for overwintering- I am still real fuzzy about the how and the when best suited for my locale. Might try using swarm cells if I find any this Spring and then work to stave off swarming- giving them plenty of time to get well-established for Winter.

    5. Harvest a little honey- I have been sharing all the excess with new swarms the past two years and expect to do so again this year... but I am beginning to be embarrassed to tell people that I haven't bottled any honey yet... need to siphon off enough to maintain my dignity.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  11. #1410
    Join Date
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,231

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Don.t worry about you dignity, unlike most, you are a doer and not just a talker. That is enough to be proud of and the rest will come.
    Good luck
    Cheers
    gww

    Ps 20 hives is a far cry from 6. A rose hive seems to be a square lang managed like a warre.
    zone 5b

  12. #1411
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    Jun 2018
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    A rose hive seems to be a square lang managed like a warre.
    GWW:

    Thank you for your encouragement- I sincerely appreciate it- you've been a big help to me.

    Regarding the Rose Hive Method, you are correct that it is one-sized hive body managed in in many respects like a Warre.

    The aspect of Rose Hive management that I am going to try is the idea of bisecting the brood nest by introducing an empty box between two active brood boxes for the purposes of getting the colony to draw-out whole boxes of fresh wax at a time- we'll see how this works with all 8-frame medium Langs.

    Thanks again for your kind feedback and good luck to you this season.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  13. #1412
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    Jun 2018
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Yesterday I completed the 48-hour hive drop counts for all the colonies with SBB's with a little help from two of my daughters- one served as stenographer and the other as a second set of eyes as she can see much better than me.

    I told them I would pay them a dollar each to help out, and they quickly responded saying I needed to pay both of them a dollar for every mite we found. We settled on a dollar a mite, splitting the proceeds 50/50.

    While I think it is far too early to draw any kind of conclusions from these data, it is interesting to observe that there seems to be no discernible pattern this year versus last year.

    What may develop is an understanding that taking mite drops at the same date each season may not be as informative as possibly taking them at the same status of colony development (i.e. at the equivalent of 6 frames of brood).

    That said, the colonies are ahead of where they were this time last year, so I would have expected the mite drops to be higher due to increased brood-rearing.

    In summation- I don't know what I am doing, and don't know what to make of what I am recording .

    48-Hour Mite Drops (03.23.20).jpg
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  14. #1413
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    Somerset, NJ
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    482

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    GWW:

    Thank you for your encouragement- I sincerely appreciate it- you've been a big help to me.

    Regarding the Rose Hive Method, you are correct that it is one-sized hive body managed in in many respects like a Warre.

    The aspect of Rose Hive management that I am going to try is the idea of bisecting the brood nest by introducing an empty box between two active brood boxes for the purposes of getting the colony to draw-out whole boxes of fresh wax at a time- we'll see how this works with all 8-frame medium Langs.

    Thanks again for your kind feedback and good luck to you this season.
    Be careful with this. I tried an empty between brood boxes and it didn't produce comb just queen cells. Because the empty box acts as a barrier to the queen and there is reduced queen pheromone in the other box which triggers supercedure cells.

  15. #1414
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    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    5,462

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    Be careful with this. I tried an empty between brood boxes and it didn't produce comb just queen cells. Because the empty box acts as a barrier to the queen and there is reduced queen pheromone in the other box which triggers supercedure cells.
    With heavy Carni influence bees and some periods of cold and wet weather I think supercedure cells would be almost guaranteed with that degree of separation especially with deeps. I think the Rose hive uses shallower depth though. Weather/flow conditions might be a factor. Maybe Russ has similar enough to make it fly! As long as you were on top of it supercedure cells could be a plus. Sounds like a fun thing to try.
    Frank

  16. #1415
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    Be careful with this. I tried an empty between brood boxes and it didn't produce comb just queen cells. Because the empty box acts as a barrier to the queen and there is reduced queen pheromone in the other box which triggers supercedure cells.
    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    With heavy Carni influence bees and some periods of cold and wet weather I think supercedure cells would be almost guaranteed with that degree of separation especially with deeps. I think the Rose hive uses shallower depth though. Weather/flow conditions might be a factor. Maybe Russ has similar enough to make it fly! As long as you were on top of it supercedure cells could be a plus. Sounds like a fun thing to try.
    Gents:

    Thank you for the experienced admonition here- I will take it as good advice to proceed with caution regarding this approach.

    If I did the conversions correctly, it appears that a Rose Hive is approximately 18-1/8" X 18-1/8" X 7-1/2" D for an internal volume of over 1,800 cubic inches.

    Comparing the depth (i.e. 7-1/2" versus 6-5/8") and the overall volume (i.e. 1,800 versus 1,500 cubic inches) seems to suggest that an 8-frame medium Langstroth might be a decent comparable to the Rose Hive, at least from the perspective of the overall void created when introducing an empty.

    I'll plan on dipping my toes in cautiously and see what happens...

    Thank you both again for the input- I really appreciate it.

    Russ

    p.s. Here is a good PowerPoint presentation of Tim Rowe's manipulation process for those who haven't seen it before:

    http://www.rosebeehives.com/uploads/...slide_show.pdf
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  17. #1416
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    You should be able to proof the concept close enough with the medium lang. box and frame without getting into a specialized equip. format. I have handled the Eyre (DE) equipment which has similar frame ears and they are easy on the fingers, BUT they create great havens for SHB.
    Frank

  18. #1417
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Northern Il, USA
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    615

    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    Be careful with this. I tried an empty between brood boxes and it didn't produce comb just queen cells. Because the empty box acts as a barrier to the queen and there is reduced queen pheromone in the other box which triggers supercedure cells.
    I may just try this to see what I get. Intending to make some queen cells anyway, and this sounds easy. Just put a box in between two boxes with eggs...

  19. #1418
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    Jun 2018
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    I have handled the Eyre (DE) equipment which has similar frame ears and they are easy on the fingers, BUT they create great havens for SHB.
    Frank:

    Thank you for your feedback- and I apologize for the delay in reply as I have been away from the computer. I was unfamiliar with an Eyre hive, so I had to research it- looks like a modified Langstroth hive?

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/arc.../t-265212.html

    https://mudsongs.org/de-hive/

    I was surprised to read that you have trouble with SHB in your more northerly locale.

    Thanks again for your help and input. I sincerely appreciate it!

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  20. #1419
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    This past Friday was unseasonably warm and everything has started blooming all at once so I decided to do the first inspection/manipulation of the season on the seven (7) Langstroth colonies as follows:

    #1803: +/- 20 frames of bees / capped drones / no swarm cells. Added empty box between two active brood boxes.

    #1804: +/- 16 frames of bees / capped drones / no swarm cells. Added empty box between two active brood boxes.

    #1907: +/- 12 frames of bees / a few SHB's in-residence. Added box of drawn comb.

    #1909: +/- 16 frames of bees / no swarm cells. Added empty box between two active brood boxes.

    #1910: +/- 20 frames of bees / dry swarm cups. Added empty box between two active brood boxes.

    #1911: +/- 12 frames of bees / a few SHB's in-residence. Added box of drawn comb.

    #1912: +/- 24 frames of bees / dry swarm cups. Added empty box between two active brood boxes.

    It looks like we have a nightime low predicted in the upper 30's F on Tuesday night (yikes!) so I may come to seriously regret this early season experiment.

    Fresh wax showing up in #1904 now in the place where their comb had failed sometime late last season.

    Finally, I was able to utilize Oldtimer's wedge trick to good effect, separating some free-hanging comb in #1912 without any appreciable damage.

    20200327_162123.jpg 20200327_150034.jpg 20200327_150630.jpg 20200327_150729.jpg
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  21. #1420
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    Default Re: Treatment-Free Bungling 2018 - ?

    Also, while manipulating the hives I collected mites for evaluation. Friday afternoon was approximately 6 days from the date that the trays were renewed.

    #1803 - 17 total / 10 damaged
    #1804- 9 total / 6 damaged
    #1907- 7 total / 3 damaged
    #1909- 4 total / 2 damaged
    #1910- 0 total
    #1911- 2 total / 1 damaged
    #1912- 3 total / 2 damaged

    When observing the mites, there are some interesting things that I see:

    There are some that are obviously heavily-damaged, even their carapaces.

    There are some that are atypical.

    It seems that most have at least some damage of their mouthparts. For example, three representative mites from #1907, show:

    Partially damaged mouthparts (#1907-01).

    Heavily damaged mouthparts and legs (#1907-02).

    Harder to interpret mites that look otherwise intact but seem to have damaged mouthparts (#1907-03). For the purposes of evaluation, I count mites in this condition as undamaged.

    Extreme.jpg Weird.jpg 1907-01.jpg 1907-02.jpg 1907-03.jpg
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

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