AFB or PMS
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Thread: AFB or PMS

  1. #1
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    Default AFB or PMS

    I found this photo on a website that teaches beekeeping classes and sells honey, hives, etc. They are TF.

    It looks like PMS and maybe the beginning of AFB. I am hoping someone with more experience with AFB can help. I don't want to cause a panic by telling them they have AFB or getting a cussing for sticking my nose where it is not wanted.

    There are more photos of brood with sunken caps that are identified as capped honey.

    Honeycomb_New_Capped_Drone_Comb.jpg

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    Here's another. The top center has sunken caps, but they don't look greasy.

    Capped_drone_comb_darker.jpg

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    It doesnt look like AFB.No pierced cappings.Drone layer and maybe heavy mites under those cappings and dead drones because of them flattened down like that.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    Here's another
    topbar hive....not like frames and foundation
    drone comb got squished taking it out

  6. #5
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    I agree with that also.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    AFB has a special smell. Fortunately, I haven't smelled it in years. PMS is another story.

    There's also the ropy test for AFB where you stick a toothpick in the goo and pull it out slowly. If you get a 'thread' from the cell to the toothpick, that's a pretty sure sign.

    PMS demonstrates many symptoms that are similar to sacbrood, chalkbrood and foulbrood. I haven't seen much for awhile.

    AFB gets terramycin treatment, if the government will allow it, while PMS needs the varroa treatment of your choice. If may or may not keep the hive alive.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1d View Post
    It doesnt look like AFB.No pierced cappings.Drone layer and maybe heavy mites under those cappings and dead drones because of them flattened down like that.
    Here is another that shows pierced cappings.

    These are not my bees. They are in CO.

    Honeycomb_New_Capped_Drone_Comb_CloseUp.jpg

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    Thanks for the replies.

    These are not my bees. Fortunately, I don't have any first hand with brood diseases.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    I don't have any first hand with brood diseases
    neither do I... but I have seen plenty of EFB,PMS,Chalk
    that being said, down load the picture and zoom
    I see VHS type uncapping behavior/bald brood and bright white larvae underneath threw the holes
    AFB is typicality not a TF issue, the hives often die form mites 1st and topbar keepers don't move infected super frames form hive to hive
    not sure what your ax to grind against Backyard hive is... Don't get me wrong I have a few, but hives full of AFB isn't one of them.
    Last edited by msl; 12-06-2018 at 11:05 PM.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    I think it may just be a less-organized comb than would be typical with a Lang-style frame/foundation combo. Honey cells do sometimes seem to have more wrinkly caps than brood cells.

    I am not seeing the many open, pierced, funky-looking cells that are usually pictured as examples of AFB.

    My only personal experience with a brood disease -EFB- leads me to notice that there are glistening, pearly white, pre-pupa sized larvae in the pictures so it doesn't look like that disease. EFB is noticeable because there are eggs and very young larvae (1-2 day old), but a marked lack of those beautiful white grubs that completely fill their cells. And of course far fewer capped brood than you'd expect. The reason for the imbalance is that EFB usually kills the larvae before they are old enough to get capped.

    And of course depending on the site they may have bought stock pictures and not looked at them closely enough to make sure what was visible. Ooops!

    Nancy

  12. #11
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    I would ad that once a hive has PMS, the queen is doomed. Treating, adding brood from a healthy hive and requeening, in my experience, is the only way to save the hive.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    not sure what your ax to grind against Backyard hive is... Don't get me wrong I have a few, but hives full of AFB isn't one of them.
    I don't have an ax to grind, that is why I didn't mention any names.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: AFB or PMS

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    I think it may just be a less-organized comb than would be typical with a Lang-style frame/foundation combo. Honey cells do sometimes seem to have more wrinkly caps than brood cells.

    I am not seeing the many open, pierced, funky-looking cells that are usually pictured as examples of AFB.

    My only personal experience with a brood disease -EFB- leads me to notice that there are glistening, pearly white, pre-pupa sized larvae in the pictures so it doesn't look like that disease. EFB is noticeable because there are eggs and very young larvae (1-2 day old), but a marked lack of those beautiful white grubs that completely fill their cells. And of course far fewer capped brood than you'd expect. The reason for the imbalance is that EFB usually kills the larvae before they are old enough to get capped.



    Nancy
    Thanks for your reply.

    I am trying to learn to detect the early signs of brood diseases. I thought scavenging the internet for pictures and asking questions might be one way to find pictures of the early signs. When I google a specific disease I get full blown cases, so I just used the term "brood comb."

    Thanks again.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

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