Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc) - Page 3
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 73
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    The original bee race distributions.
    The case of the USSR - they were planning where any particular bee will be a good fit per the local factors (climate, ecology) - that is the planning map for bee introductions, only partially factual.
    BeeRaceDistributionUSSR_AsPlanned_Mod.jpg
    BeeRaceDistributionEurasia.jpg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    E.P. Petrov draws attention to the peculiarity of the structure of the bee's nest in the conditions of the natural existence of the family. The entire upper part of the dwelling forms a food storage, and below them is a compact nest with brood woven by numerous bridges between cells. Such a structure creates unity, increases the internal compactness of the nest, located in a vertical space, which contributes to the economical use of food and good family development. When bees are hibernating in the hollow, the relative position of the food, brood and letka stocks is of great importance. Between them there is a constant interaction. In the autumn-winter period, when the development of the family is completely stopped and the feed consumption of bees is limited to a minimum, the bee club moves only upwards following the diminishing feed reserves, but at the same time it is “tied” to one of the entrances. As the cluster moves away from the entrance the its shape changes, and in the second half of the wintering season it has a slightly elongated shape, so that the edge of the cluster is always next to an entrance. Since the bees in the winter cluster are constantly changing places, each of them periodically falls into the zone of fresh air coming from the entrance.
    So this particular quote only applies only to the northern-style bee living in a vertical bee-tree (and its artificial emulations).
    And also, this particular context is well studied and documented.
    One issue - somehow this particular context is assigned to ALL bees.
    Unsure why so - the context disagreements are so very obvious once you start looking at the places where the bees are coming from originally.

    To compare, for Gray Caucasion normal habitat is caves and cracks in mountain sides - with totally different dimensional dynamics and seasonal moves (horizontal seasonal moves maybe indeed common).
    I am yet to find any good study on this exact subject.
    There is just none to be found it feels like.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    613

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    The "long enough" part is the unknown.
    I might croak and do not get to see it before anything comes around (and IF it comes around - remember my "almond bee" annual loads).
    That would be a real shame.

    You know, time is the most limited and valuable resource we get.
    No IFs; no BUTs.
    You get no extra shots.

    The "wait and see" approach in certain areas is not the best way, I feel.
    Undertaking some deliberate steps is a better way.

    I do not want to send swarms out - I find it ineffective in my area (they will just likely perish and be wasted).
    But, I do find it reasonable to actually set out several pseudo-feral units in the vicinity, in protected areas, and rather keep them low profile (or face prosecution, literally).
    (be it actual log hives for the fun of it - posing as "swarm traps").
    Hint, hint...
    Greg if you are looking for a good wood working project for the weekend, this is an interesting DYI log hive.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28R67u-4efs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBN4hZ_HPk
    Last edited by Gray Goose; 03-28-2019 at 08:45 PM. Reason: add second link

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Greg if you are looking for a good wood working project for the weekend, this is an interesting DYI log hive.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28R67u-4efs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBN4hZ_HPk
    Yes; cool projects.
    Have to have a good chain saw and a property away from neighbors "overly-sensitive" over my strange ways.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Latest interesting find.
    I extracted and translated a section of interest.

    Epizootology of infectious and invasive diseases of Burzyan wild/feral bees.

    Varroatosis was first registered in the reserve “Shulgan-Tash” in 1977-1979. Until 1986, the situation of the bee colonies with respect to the Varroa distructor within the range of Burzyan wild bees was considered relatively satisfactory. Levels of mites in the bee trees (Table 5) in most cases (8 out of 10) was lower than in the standard frame hives maintained in the same areas and same environmental conditions.

    More often than not these differences were statistically significant, including for medium multi-year data - at the level of p <0.001.
    In one case, when the mite level parameter was lower in apiary-kept bees, the mite levels for the year as a whole were low.

    In addition, in the bee apiaries on the reserve therapeutic and preventive measures were routinely carried out over the study period (as opposed to the treatment-free wild/feral bees).

    Without regular the use of veterinary drugs the differences of the compared groups would be even more pronounced.
    The reasons for the greater stability of wild/feral bees can be several …

    (GV: bee dwelling differences mentioned as possibly significant - I omit details)…

    But the main reason why wild bees suffer less from invasions and adapt to them faster, is their more pronounced immunity due to the fact that hard natural selection without human intervention takes place.

    (GV: feral bees’ swarming and absconding as other favorable factor to their survival are mentioned - I omit details ....)

    More resistant wild bees, apparently, increase the stability of the managed bees when they are relocated <GV: to the apiaries> for breeding purposes.
    The table 5 as mentioned on the text (with my comments).
    MiteCountesBashkortostanWildVsManaged.jpg

    Source - Umaguzhin, 2011, p. 20-21 (non-English):
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...CpUqjCWdKvFE-H

    So - IF the wild/feral bees are left alone to their devices - they can survive and self-manage the mites (after the initial brief shock period passes over - in this case in late 1970s).
    This paper appears a totally a "black box" data collection effort without significant attempts to explain much of anything (in Varroa area to be clear).
    But the details of "how" are less important to the practical bee keeping anyway, and best left to the academics to ponder about.

    Just one more professionally researched and documented confirmation of the same.
    I can only wonder how many more relevant non-English sources are available completely under the radar.
    Anyone can read Korean or Chinese?
    Last edited by GregV; 04-22-2019 at 10:15 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,264

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Latest interesting find.
    GregV: Good stuff- thank you for sharing. I thought it particularly interesting the bit about how, "...wild bees, apparently, increase the stability of the managed bees when they are relocated..."

    Certainly runs contrary to the mantra that untreated feral bees are a part of the continued varroa problem.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Here is a really good video about current bee-tree beekeeping.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cSZyyZ73Vg
    Too bad - non-English and no subtitles (I enjoyed watching it).
    7:00 - 9:45 - ground-level log hive apiary
    9:45 - 24:00 - modern way to carve a bee-tree ("bort'") - chain saw is a big help.
    24:00 - 33:00 - bee-tree maintenance - setting up an old, used tree-hive to attract a new swarm
    33:00 - 34:00 - modern bee-tree operator with equipment
    34:00 - 34:20 - fresh tracks of a brown bear trying to climb the bee tree (unsuccessfully)
    34:20 - 48:00 - process of honey harvest (September, it looks like)
    .... more stuff, but I need to sleep...
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Byron, Il, USA
    Posts
    368

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Hmmm. We had some timber harvested last year. Of course they left the hollow ones lying on the ground. Wouldn't be too hard to chunk those into size and stand them up...

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    Hmmm. We had some timber harvested last year. Of course they left the hollow ones lying on the ground. Wouldn't be too hard to chunk those into size and stand them up...
    Sure.
    Am still hoping a swarm will move into my one of my log traps this season, but getting late.
    Idea is to let them stay there and not touch.
    Just observe them and let them throw the swarms and do whatever they wanna do.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    613

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
    Hmmm. We had some timber harvested last year. Of course they left the hollow ones lying on the ground. Wouldn't be too hard to chunk those into size and stand them up...
    if you have the time and desire, seems you have a head start. Several good Utubes on the log hive construction.
    Most of them seem to haul them up into a tree, to avoid some of the ground based pests. In A barn Hay loft would work IMO
    Not sure the rules on having a non inspect-able log hive in your state. I guess clearly mark on the log "Birds only"..,,..

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    if you have the time and desire, seems you have a head start. Several good Utubes on the log hive construction.
    Most of them seem to haul them up into a tree, to avoid some of the ground based pests. In A barn Hay loft would work IMO
    Not sure the rules on having a non inspect-able log hive in your state. I guess clearly mark on the log "Birds only"..,,..
    In my state movable frames are required.
    Well, I have the movable frames in my log hives by design.
    Up to me if I want to move them or not.

    Hauling up is not required if the hives are in a secure location.
    In the video I posted - they talk about the swarms clearly preferring the hives up the trees (IF those are available).
    So the bee-tree keepers continue doing it - because the bees like it so (but also the bears can not get to them, in the forest setting).
    There is clear natural selection by the bears that is going on - anything within reach will get destroyed and eaten up - those bears are very good at selecting the bees.

    PS: this weekend I will eval the start-ups and itching to just "waste" one of them for a log-trap trial and priming;
    just plug them into a log and whatever happens - happens;
    but ideally I prefer some late swarm just moving in and so I spend no time on the "gymnastics";
    really want to see what they will do and how they will do it.
    Last edited by GregV; 08-09-2019 at 11:42 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    613

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    In my state movable frames are required.
    Well, I have the movable frames in my log hives by design.
    Up to me if I want to move them or not.

    Hauling up is not required if the hives are in a secure location.
    In the video I posted - they talk about the swarms clearly preferring the hives up the trees (IF those are available).
    So the bee-tree keepers continue doing it - because the bees like it so (but also the bears can not get to them, in the forest setting).
    There is clear natural selection by the bears that is going on - anything within reach will get destroyed and eaten up - those bears are very good at selecting the bees.

    PS: this weekend I will eval the start-ups and itching to just "waste" one of them for a log-trap trial and priming;
    just plug them into a log and whatever happens - happens;
    but ideally I prefer some late swarm just moving in and so I spend no time on the "gymnastics";
    really want to see what they will do and how they will do it.
    GregV I see Sam Comfort uses sticks to be his "frame guides" what about chain saw slotting 2 opposite edges of the log then measure and place a couple sticks into a hive of yours, when you have 2 or 3 combs, on the sticks move them to the log with a shake or 2 of bees and let them go.

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    GregV I see Sam Comfort uses sticks to be his "frame guides" what about chain saw slotting 2 opposite edges of the log then measure and place a couple sticks into a hive of yours, when you have 2 or 3 combs, on the sticks move them to the log with a shake or 2 of bees and let them go.
    I already pre-built my logs to take in Lang frames (just by turning them 90 degrees).
    Ready to go, really.

    Time is the true limitation here.
    Vs. playing with the logs (a pie in a sky, to be honest), I need to urgently build production size hives to re-hive the May splits (fingers crossed - they did not swarm on me yet out the temp hives - not a clue, been 4 weeks when I last checked them). These will include making some "short frames" to capture the late flow into those because I want this setup to be in trial too. May just forgo this frame trial due to time shortness.

    Then I must go around and replace all the capped honey frames in the prod hives with the blanks (while the mid-summer flow is still going and the late-summer is pending - I want that goldenrod honey captured, if any luck).
    Then, depending the crop volume I pull (fingers crossed for lots!) need to build an extractor so to vacate the combs for re-use.

    Need to get the kids to some clean beach (before summer end).
    All the while peaches and plums are about ready to harvest.

    So you see where I am ....
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    .......
    Vs. playing with the logs (a pie in a sky, to be honest)......
    Of course, all too often, I end up satisfying the itch (vs. doing what actually makes sense).
    Nothing new.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    613

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Of course, all too often, I end up satisfying the itch (vs. doing what actually makes sense).
    Nothing new.
    ok a little off topic. why not make a wall with several "cavities" I get the log thing but big trees are hard to find in some places. I have several times seen bees in walls 15 x 6 inch "hollow. So make a wall maybe 14 inch ID and double coat it with boards on both sides, each stud cavity can be a separate hive. make doors if you want, for clean out out or harvest. Make it 8 feet high with a good warm insulated roof, could be 4 to 6 logs worth of bees Habitat, made in weekend. Better yet on the inside of a old barn wall, hay loft high, east end. Hmm another fun project.
    GG

  17. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    ok a little off topic. why not make a wall with several "cavities" I get the log thing but big trees are hard to find in some places. I have several times seen bees in walls 15 x 6 inch "hollow. So make a wall maybe 14 inch ID and double coat it with boards on both sides, each stud cavity can be a separate hive. make doors if you want, for clean out out or harvest. Make it 8 feet high with a good warm insulated roof, could be 4 to 6 logs worth of bees Habitat, made in weekend. Better yet on the inside of a old barn wall, hay loft high, east end. Hmm another fun project.
    GG

    GG, I need "that barn".
    Don't have one.
    So I just do with what I have.

    Shoot, your idea is very good - "wall of feral bees".
    You could rake out some good raw honey that way and hardly spend the time managing them - a good deal.

    Really, IF I had a barn and plenty of space around to keep people away, I'd do some crazy things.
    One reason the old timers never thought of your idea - they themselves did not have access to cheap and plentiful standard lumber.
    If they lived in the modern houses (like us) with hollow, studded walls - they would have made those "bee walls" in a split-second (in their own houses too - so to get the honey from the wall and directly onto the table - as needed).
    Well, IF you live in a log cabin - kinda hard to envision the "bee wall" built-into a studded wall.
    That never materialized at the time.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    613

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    GG, I need "that barn".
    Don't have one.
    So I just do with what I have.

    Shoot, your idea is very good - "wall of feral bees".
    You could rake out some good raw honey that way and hardly spend the time managing them - a good deal.

    Really, IF I had a barn and plenty of space around to keep people away, I'd do some crazy things.
    One reason the old timers never thought of your idea - they themselves did not have access to cheap and plentiful standard lumber.
    If they lived in the modern houses (like us) with hollow, studded walls - they would have made those "bee walls" in a split-second (in their own houses too - so to get the honey from the wall and directly onto the table - as needed).
    Well, IF you live in a log cabin - kinda hard to envision the "bee wall" built-into a studded wall.
    That never materialized at the time.
    Hi Greg, I have a "deer blind to build, on a new property, 6 feet up into the air and maybe a 6 foot by 10 foot foot print. I'll work the bee wall into the plans, and try to get some Pics. it will only cost me 10-12 inches as there will be a 2x4 wall there any way, now a 2x14 been turning this over in my head for a while. I can snorkel out some air vents on top, drill holes in the floor and screen them. hmm 6 foot i may try for 4 compartments, End 2 hives come in from the different sides to reduce drift. be a fun project.

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Hi Greg, I have a "deer blind to build, on a new property, 6 feet up into the air and maybe a 6 foot by 10 foot foot print. I'll work the bee wall into the plans, and try to get some Pics. it will only cost me 10-12 inches as there will be a 2x4 wall there any way, now a 2x14 been turning this over in my head for a while. I can snorkel out some air vents on top, drill holes in the floor and screen them. hmm 6 foot i may try for 4 compartments, End 2 hives come in from the different sides to reduce drift. be a fun project.
    Perfect!
    Envious...
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  20. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,264

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    I'll work the bee wall into the plans, and try to get some Pics.
    This does sound like a great project and I look forward to seeing this develop.

    Russ

  21. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,148

    Default Re: Primitive beekeeping (bee trees, log hives, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Hi Greg, I have a "deer blind to build, on a new property, 6 feet up into the air and maybe a 6 foot by 10 foot foot print. I'll work the bee wall into the plans, and try to get some Pics. it will only cost me 10-12 inches as there will be a 2x4 wall there any way, now a 2x14 been turning this over in my head for a while. I can snorkel out some air vents on top, drill holes in the floor and screen them. hmm 6 foot i may try for 4 compartments, End 2 hives come in from the different sides to reduce drift. be a fun project.
    GG: one idea - since we are talking of essentially "row of hives", it also makes sense to alternate entrance height (say: low-high-low-high) OR make it configurable so you close the low/open the high - this is to make the neighboring units somewhat distinct and also give them choices - some swarms will move into the low entrance/others will prefer the upper - a consideration.... Excited about your idea already.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •