WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_in_Louisiana

    suggests it did happen in Louisiana as well, maby not on such a huge scale as elce ware , then starting in 98 it was followed by a much quicker full rebound then most would have expected.

    There is certainly something happinging in your neck of the woods... A TF keeper in you state losses less bees then a TX keeper in mine (and many other)....
    the study makes an interesting suggestion
    "However, we cannot rule out that some varroaresistant bees from the USDA laboratory in Baton Rougemay have been represented. The “late-varroa”reboundof swarming and longevity of feral bees coincided withthe period of initial selection and breeding for varroaresistance in two types of bees at the laboratory (Harboand Hoopingarner 1997, Rinderer et al. 1997).

    yes there are some AMM still around, but they have been "wiped out" so to speak
    1994 they made up 37% of the feral pop, 2009 7%
    so they certainty have been threw some natural selecting as even after "rebounding" they are only holding 19% of there previous market share

    I am unsure as to how to place the age of feral hive... the study above puts its life span fairly short...
    Previous one would have expected wax moth to clean out the cavity between occupation, Seeley 2017 suggests other wise

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  3. #82
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    MSL, fascinating study. It would be interesting to know whether the average length of swarm survival has continued to increase since 2006. Some or all of a large, untreated base population of feral bees with a diverse gene pool from which to draw surviving phenotypes, together with genetic material from open breeding by bees from the ARS research efforts in Baton Rouge and migrating up and across inland wetlands, particularly in the vacuum presumably left by reduced populations of non-resistant and non-tolerant bees, together with Africanized Honey Bees that hybridize and have milder temperaments as they reach more temperate climate zones and interbreed with other native surviving feral bees, together with our high relative humidity, together with brood breaks during our severe summer dearth, could play a roll. But, most likely it’s my fifteen little untreated colonies of mutts that tip the scale and make the difference.
    Last edited by Riverderwent; 11-26-2018 at 08:11 PM.
    David Matlock

  4. #83
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    >The attached screen shot is part of a long thread discussing MB's losses in 2018.

    Interesting how other people always seem to know more about my bees than I do... I was not part of that discussion and was unaware of it. My losses last winter were the same as the average for Nebraska, which was a rough winter (-30 F for a while). They were doing very well in July when I got hit by pesticides. I did not lose all my bees, but in the one yard (my main yard) that got hit I lost 80%. I was doing queen rearing so we were in all those hives on Sunday July 15th and they were thriving. The following Friday (the 20th) when we were going through them again, there were half as many bees in all the living colonies and some had completely died. The aerial spraying was still taking place that Friday. At the time that yard had 50 full size Langstroth hives, 3 top bar hives, 2 AZ hives, 1 Huber hive, 1 box hive and 145 mating nucs. The weak remaining hives continued to die until losses reached 80%. Very depressing. My other two yards were not affected. If only we could breed insecticide resistant bees... well, probably we are, whether we like it or not.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  5. #84
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Sorry to hear it Michael, and thanks for the explanation. What are you doing with the still alive ones?

    Some of my own bees got poisoned maybe 6 months ago, and were reduced to maybe a couple frames of bees or so. They have struggled on since then with very spotty brood and no increase in bee numbers, and I think it's because there was still poison in the hives, reaching young larvae, and killing them. However at last these hives have worked their way through it and are are coming right, brood patterns good and increasing bee population. They will not give me a harvest this time, but will make good wintering condition.

    As an aside, I didn't know you had 145 mating nucs, so clearly you are selling more than a handful of queens. How are your bees performing longer term against mites in different areas and climate types to your own? And how are they doing in LC hives?
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  6. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Woodbridge, Va
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    17

    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Part of Dee Lusbys ability to keep bees treatment free probably has to do with the type of bee that live in her area.

    For those who have not seen it here is a video of them. Longish video starts a bit slow, recommend skipping forward to around minute 4.00. At around minute 5.00 with a little imagination I can almost hear a voice yelling "HOUSEL HOUSEL".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEp9YqUE7kA

    That is true. It very well may be that she does indeed have AHB stock. Actually surprised that it took so long for someone to bring it up. They have been shown to handle the varroa better than the European bee.

  7. #86
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Her bees show thelytoky, so there is definately an african influence there, but seperate from "normal" africanised bees which are from scutelata, as scutelata do not show thelytoky. However there may also be a scutelata influence as well, who knows.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  8. #87
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    San Mateo, CA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    > It very well may be that she does indeed have AHB stock. Actually surprised that it took so long for someone to bring it up.

    It was brought up probably at least ten years ago. From your first post #1 you have demonstrated you are ten years behind on Dee Lusby etc. treatment free discussions.

  9. #88
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    LOL some truth to that. Reading FreeBee is like reading some of the earnest TF'ers that were posting ten years ago, but they and their bees are now gone.

    No offense FreeBee, but you do sound like that.

    But it's obvious you are an avid researcher, plus you are still here and participating, all good. When do you plan to get the first bees?
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  10. #89
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    Jan 2017
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    South Waikato New Zealand
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    It is time to just call it "pesticide-free" management practices.
    People should just start using this honest, simple definition and move alone.
    Liking this, maybe we could add....In Transition for those of us who are in the middle of moving towards complete TF but obviously not there yet.

  11. #90
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    >What are you doing with the still alive ones?

    I'm hoping they will make it through the winter. I wonder how much the stores have insecticide in them and how much that will shorten their lives. We have a long winter here...

    >How are your bees performing longer term against mites in different areas and climate types to your own?

    I get good reports from people. I haven't had any negative reports.

    >And how are they doing in LC hives?

    I'm not sure how often they are in LC hives, but I'm sure they are doing better than the California or Georgia commercial queens. I haven't had any complaints.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  12. #91
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    lc hive? not sure what that is.

    sad to hear about the poisoning michael. fingers crossed for good wintering.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  13. #92

    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    The aerial spraying was still taking place that Friday.
    What crop were they spraying?

  14. #93
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    Apr 2015
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    Richmond, VA, USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    "lc hive? not sure what that is."

    Large Cell?

  15. #94
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    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mischief View Post
    Liking this, maybe we could add....In Transition for those of us who are in the middle of moving towards complete TF but obviously not there yet.
    The "complete TF" is likely just one of those unachievable goals and good sounding stories (while not even being fully defined still).

    The true and complete TF is when you go to the forest, climb a bee tree, cut some combs while still leaving the bees with enough food, and get your annual harvest that way.
    Some people are actually doing it, but not many.

    With that, "pesticide-free" management is really the only practically achievable goal there is (which is plenty good to produce clean foods and have healthy bees).

    I would focus on "pesticide-free" as already hard enough, but still achievable, instead of "complete TF".
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  16. #95
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    >What crop were they spraying?

    Soybeans.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  17. #96
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >What crop were they spraying?

    Soybeans.
    Was it spray drift or were they actively working the soybeans? I’ve only seen this one time in one yard here in South Dakota in recent years though the loss wasn’t as extensive as you describe, brought back memories of foliage spray losses back in “the day”. This yard spent the rest of the summer recovering and most were back to full strength by late fall. Of course these were headed by “commercial queens”.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #97
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    "lc hive? not sure what that is."

    Large Cell?
    Yes. As opposed to SC (small cell). Used to be a commonly used abbreviation back when people spent more time discussing that stuff.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  19. #98
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    >Was it spray drift or were they actively working the soybeans?

    The soybeans were blooming at the time. I wasn't out looking in the field to see if they were working the soybeans, but the outcome would seem to support that.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  20. #99
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Yes. As opposed to SC (small cell). Used to be a commonly used abbreviation back when people spent more time discussing that stuff.
    understood, thanks!
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  21. #100
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    Default Re: WHERE are the real treatment free beekeepers?

    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

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