OAV or Apivar? - Page 2
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 39 of 39

Thread: OAV or Apivar?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    Every form of mite treatment has its pros and cons and a place in the treatment world. While PSM1212 has had issues with OAV, I have had issues with Apivar and MAQS too. In my opinion, if you have a hive with a major mite problem, Apivar works too slowly to bring it in line. What I do like Apivar for is hives in an out yard. Put the treatment on and come back next month. It does not get much easier than that. For areas with long extended fall nectar flows, it is not a very good choice for a late summer or fall treatment. Do you really want to remove the honey supers for 40+ days during a nectar flow? In my area, the last nectar flow I have ends about the 4th of July so Apivar works great for a fall treatment. If your flows are over for the year, a late season treatment when the queen is reducing her egg laying is a great time to use Apivar. The mites are spending more time being phoretic and get more time exposed to the Apivar chemicals. If you carefully think about how Apivar can be used in your apiary, you will probably find a good use for it.
    Very well said. Thank you

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Poquoson, VA
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Ha what is Mighty mite killer I have not heard of this thanks

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Geauga, Ohio
    Posts
    447

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    I use OAV in the winter because I don't have to open the hive to administer the dose. With OAV, there are some pitfalls that become obvious only after the fact... first you have to be sure that all the oxalic acid is sublimated. I have to do 2 sequential "burns", so 4 total minutes of heating rather than 2, to get all the OAV to sublimate. Otherwise it won't work. Second you have to have a hive configuration where the vapor will get to the bees. 3 deeps won't work. A top bar hive requires special care to get under the brood nest too. The final pitfall - treating BEFORE the hive gets a mite bomb, either due to incoming foragers from another hive that have mites or from your bees robbing and bringing back some karma. ;/

    Apivar has a big advantage over OAV - it continuously kills mites over a long stretch (though not like a lightning bolt, as OAV does). This means a big influx of mites towards the end of summer won't be a killer for a hive with Apivar, in contrast to a hive treated with OAV, which can be treated in mid Oct then get mite bombed the next day....

    And btw a mite count of 3/300 in my neck of the woods is too high - the hive might make it but it will be struggling with mites from the first step and those mites will get a serious leg up early on - hive might not even make it to August. OAV until you get a drop of 20....

    And a drop of 100 mites means there were only about 100 mites total in your broodless hive - that ain't bad ending level! More than 200 for a more-than-nuc-sized-hive is cause for concern that your summer mite management was insufficient.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    311

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    I use both. Five hives each year get Apivar and the rest get OAV. I rotate them to try and avoid contributing to any resistance to oxalic acid.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    allen,indiana,usa
    Posts
    519

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Also curious as to what mighty mite killer is?

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    For those asking about the mite killer, it was discussed here: https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...heat-treatment

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    East Brunswick, NJ , USA
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron.koe View Post
    I already have a nice Varrox vaporizer, a good 12V/12.5A transformer that ive tested with the Varrox, and enough wood bleach to last until eternity.

    Is there any reason i should buy Apivar strips to suppliment my mite treatment? I have read there is no resistance buildup to the OAV, so i should just use that since ive already invested in all this equipment.... right?
    Dear Aaron.koe,

    What 12V/12.5A transformer do you use for OAV? Could you please share the make and model number and/or a link?

    Thank you,
    beereal.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Turnbow Hollow, Tennessee
    Posts
    456

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Oak View Post
    OAV and Apivar are VERY effective at dropping phoretic varroa mite counts. OAV may to some degree kill reproductive varroa mites in the comb that has not been capped yet. You want to use an effective treatment that will kill and knock down reproductive mites hard. To my knowledge there are 3 treatments that will achieve this: MAQS, Formic Pro, and the Mighty Mite Killer. MAQS and Formic Pro are restricted from use above 85 degrees (I would not attempt to use it above 80 and probably more like 75 degrees or risk heavy brood losses or possible loss of queen), the Mighty Mite Killer has no upper temperature limit but the minimum temperature to achieve optimum treatment temperature is 70 degrees (with the use of well placed insulation you can probably treat in a much lower temperature like low 60's even 50's.

    In my opinion, the best option is to treat with a product that kills the reproductive varroa mites whenever possible and needed. OAV and Apivar are excellent follow on treatments for the possibility of elevated varroa mite counts during the Fall, Winter, and early Spring when it is too cold to treat with anything else.
    I wish to change my recommendation after a second season using MAQS. I treated about 50 of my hives with MAQS and the next day observed a disaster in which large numbers of bees and brood were killed. So far, 3 hives have either died or absconded and I expect a few more will. ALL foraging and other activity in the treated hives came to a halt almost immediately and about the only acitvity in some of the stronger hives was house bees dragging out dead bees and larva as well are robbing activity. I waited until the temps were about 70 degrees with following days in the mid 60's and I removed all of the entrance reducers.

    Upon observing the disaster that ensued using MAQS, I immediately changed over to OAV. The reamaining approx. 60 hives I treated with OAV are doing fantastic while the MAQS treated hives have all lost massive numbers of bees and are trying to recover.

    MAQS, Formic Pro, and ANY other Formic acid products are OFF my list of treatments. Formic acid is just FAR to toxic and destructive to honey bees. I strongly DO NOT recommend them.

    I will be sticking with OAV, Apivar, and thermal mite treatment which has worked well for me.

    In my opinion, used MAQS, Formic Pro, and any other Formic acid products at your OWN EXTREME risk to your bees.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Is there any way to make apivar strips at home, without purchasing the strips?

    That is, is there something I can mix amitraz with to make my own home made apivar strips?

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Wimer, Oregon
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    be careful with pure amitraz, dosing % wise pure amitraz is made for cows and pigs, that was the reason for some resistance to amitraz back in the 90's.
    Apivar is +1000x lower in dose, % wise, this is why it works so well now.
    Back in the 90 when pure amitraz was being used to control mites, there were big losses due to the over dosing.
    With amitraz we didn't know then about what we do now with dosing regiments for honey bees.

    Past amitraz use was like going to the Dr and them giving you 10,000mg of a drug when you are only supposed to dose with .5mg
    DavidZ

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Oak View Post
    I wish to change my recommendation after a second season using MAQS. I treated about 50 of my hives with MAQS and the next day observed a disaster in which large numbers of bees and brood were killed. So far, 3 hives have either died or absconded and I expect a few more will. ALL foraging and other activity in the treated hives came to a halt almost immediately and about the only acitvity in some of the stronger hives was house bees dragging out dead bees and larva as well are robbing activity. I waited until the temps were about 70 degrees with following days in the mid 60's and I removed all of the entrance reducers.

    Upon observing the disaster that ensued using MAQS, I immediately changed over to OAV. The reamaining approx. 60 hives I treated with OAV are doing fantastic while the MAQS treated hives have all lost massive numbers of bees and are trying to recover.

    MAQS, Formic Pro, and ANY other Formic acid products are OFF my list of treatments. Formic acid is just FAR to toxic and destructive to honey bees. I strongly DO NOT recommend them.

    I will be sticking with OAV, Apivar, and thermal mite treatment which has worked well for me.

    In my opinion, used MAQS, Formic Pro, and any other Formic acid products at your OWN EXTREME risk to your bees.
    This is not an attempt to hijack this thread but I have 2 questions on the use of MAQS.

    1. The instructions taken from NOD Global's website states "An entrance must be provided that is the full width of the hive, typically the bottom board entrance, minimum height 0.5 inches." Aren't most standard openings slightly shorter than this? That could be an issue and was pointed out in Randy Olivers article in Sept. 2011. He had no issues with his 3/4 inch openings but beekeepers with 3/8th inch openings had major problems.
    2. What ever happened to the instructions that recommended setting back the top box in a two box setup about 1/2 an inch for extra ventilation? I clearly remember seeing it and have always done so when using the product. It is not recommended if robbing is a problem but does add a lot of extra air in.

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    I have been using Apivar during the last 4 years and have had a mortality by mites always below 1%. I have come to two major conclusions: is very good if applied at the right time (in my area in February and August); Is too bad if applied too late, with colonies with PMS it's better not even try. I do not forget that Apivar is a slow release medicine and should stay in my colonies 10 weeks.

    I have a question: is it correct to treat with OAV and have supers in the hives?

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo Gomes View Post
    I have a question: is it correct to treat with OAV and have supers in the hives?
    It is not correct to OAV with supers on the hive unless you remove the supers during treatment or provide a barrier to prevent the vapor from entering the supers. The barrier for the supers can be removed at the same time you remove the barrier on the front entrance to the hive.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,425

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Oak View Post
    I wish to change my recommendation after a second season using MAQS. I treated about 50 of my hives with MAQS and the next day observed a disaster in which large numbers of bees and brood were killed. So far, 3 hives have either died or absconded and I expect a few more will. ALL foraging and other activity in the treated hives came to a halt almost immediately and about the only acitvity in some of the stronger hives was house bees dragging out dead bees and larva as well are robbing activity. I waited until the temps were about 70 degrees with following days in the mid 60's and I removed all of the entrance reducers.

    Upon observing the disaster that ensued using MAQS, I immediately changed over to OAV. The reamaining approx. 60 hives I treated with OAV are doing fantastic while the MAQS treated hives have all lost massive numbers of bees and are trying to recover.

    MAQS, Formic Pro, and ANY other Formic acid products are OFF my list of treatments. Formic acid is just FAR to toxic and destructive to honey bees. I strongly DO NOT recommend them.

    I will be sticking with OAV, Apivar, and thermal mite treatment which has worked well for me.

    In my opinion, used MAQS, Formic Pro, and any other Formic acid products at your OWN EXTREME risk to your bees.
    Yeah my wife and I are not fans of formic either. Even when used correctly it roughs the bees up too much.
    Splitting a first year hive successfully https://youtu.be/ZfRTreQ-S9c

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    655

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    Yeah my wife and I are not fans of formic either. Even when used correctly it roughs the bees up too much.
    So it sounds like you prefer Apiguard over Formic Pro? I know you use others but just curious about your preference between the two of those.

    I know you hear this a lot but great job with your videos Kamon!
    Beekeeping 6 Years - 12 production hives and about 12 nucs - Treatment OAV Only

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apis Natural View Post
    be careful with pure amitraz, dosing % wise pure amitraz is made for cows and pigs, that was the reason for some resistance to amitraz back in the 90's.
    Apivar is +1000x lower in dose, % wise, this is why it works so well now.
    Back in the 90 when pure amitraz was being used to control mites, there were big losses due to the over dosing.
    With amitraz we didn't know then about what we do now with dosing regiments for honey bees.

    Past amitraz use was like going to the Dr and them giving you 10,000mg of a drug when you are only supposed to dose with .5mg
    So basically what you're saying is that Apivar contains VERY LITTLE amitraz, yet they sell it for $3 per strip.

    So home - made Amitraz strips, would cost very little.

    Now I really would like more info on how to make home made Apivar strips.

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    "One dose confirmation study was provided to support the 10-week treatment duration if brood is present. This last study was performed according with GLP principles in 2 French apiaries and the efficacy percentage exceeded 95%.
    A list of published efficacy tests performed in Europe with the commercial product (France, Italy) was also submitted, including the different tests conducted in France by FNOSAD* since 2007, revealing an efficacy percentage superior to 95% as required by the Guideline.
    As a result, the dose of 2 strips per beehive is recommended for 6 weeks if brood is not present or at its lowest level, and for 10 weeks if brood is present.
    In addition, as the safety and efficacy of the product has only been investigated in hives with a single brood chamber (dose of 2 strips per hive/brood chamber), the use in hives with more than one brood chamber is not recommended." source: http://www.ircp.anmv.anses.fr/pdf/RPE331.pdf

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Lassen, California, USA
    Posts
    667

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    I used Apivar strips when I first got my hives. Cost me a bundle, and, some bee supply places would not sell me more than a few strips. I then tried MAQS, only did that once, caused one hive to abscond. Now I OAV exclusively, and have for the last 3 years. I only have 4 hives, but I've never lost a hive, after that one colony absconding, and they all are health and happy. So, for now at least, I'll stick with OAV.
    Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,425

    Default Re: OAV or Apivar?

    Quote Originally Posted by e-spice View Post
    So it sounds like you prefer Apiguard over Formic Pro? I know you use others but just curious about your preference between the two of those.

    I know you hear this a lot but great job with your videos Kamon!
    Oh yeah! We like having apiguard as one of our treatments! The 50 gram dose is a bit much when it is above 90 IMHO. I would rather cut myself with a dull hive tool than to start using formic again. It works but it is to rough on colonies and I like very large clusters. All of the crucial treatment times for me are in June and late August. The only time it can be used without insane colony disruption is pre spring and late fall when it is cool. Using formic at these times works but is unnecessary as the mites should be low if managed well and I don't want to rough up colonies before the honey flow or right before the go into winter. Thanks for the compliment on our videos! We are just getting warmed up! Lot of cool gadgets I just purchased!
    Splitting a first year hive successfully https://youtu.be/ZfRTreQ-S9c

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •