clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience - Page 3
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 215
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    probably wouldn't hurt to make sure all of the activity with 1803 isn't passive robbing, especially if they are not clustered like the rest. watch to see if the bees are coming and going from the other hives, maybe pull a honey frame or two and make sure the comb isn't getting torn open.

    i have all my entrances reduced down to just 1 or 2 bees at this time. if i have one that looks like it may have too much activity i'll place a rock in front of the entrance and make it a little harder to get in and out.
    I usually leave the entrances at 4"x3/8". That is the only ventilation. Perhaps I should close them all down to 1" openings. Do the super-small entrances hinder the bees during a warm snap?

    Thank you for the warning. I pulled a honey frame on 1803 on 12/29. It had a nice circular patch of mostly cleaned honey cells where they were clustering. No torn caps on the rest of the frame. The best I can figure, their population is great enough that they can keep the temps warm enough to break cluster. Right now, it is 50F outside. It is 60F in the hive at the top .

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,180

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    sounds good clong.

    since there isn't any foraging going on the entrances don't get terribly clogged up. i can easily make them a little larger when needed.

    i have small screened vents at the top on all hives, and the reducer at the bottom entrance is also screen over the 4" by 3/8" opening.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    clong:

    I ran-across this research article this morning, and the results seem to square with your thoughts about developing lower overall hive body thermal conductivity:

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rsif.2018.0879

    The key findings were:

    1. Desiccation of honey takes a significant percentage of the energy delivered to the hive in the form of nectar for A. mellifera, particularly in the northern part of their range where nectar is lower in concentration. Typical values show that over 50% of the delivered energy may be used in the process of honey ripening and even in exceptionally favourable circumstances for temperate climates, do not use less than 25%.

    2. The relative magnitude of the energies involved and the ratios of nectar to honey show that TEE of nectar desiccation should be considered as a key factor in the development and success or otherwise of honeybees in temperate climates where nectar sources are widely dispersed and of lower concentration.

    3. The lumped thermal conductance of hives, previously thought to be only consideration for winter, has been shown to be a major factor during the nectar collecting periods of the year and is dependent on honeybee behaviour.

    4. The energy consumption of nectar desiccation and hence TEE, limits the maximum foraging distance of honeybees. It also changes the energy return for a given nectar source and a consequence which nectar sources are viable for the honeybee.

    Additionally, there were several other items I found interesting:

    While insolation may input energy in high thermal conductance (2.6 W K−1) man-made hives in full sun, A. mellifera, in nature, resides in shaded, very low thermal conductance nests (0.4 W K−1)

    Given the above analysis and observations, one may discount the outside environment as being a major contributor of energy to desiccation, and is instead more likely to be a potential loss.

    One of the results of the model presented here is that higher ambient temperature with a constant honey ripening rate would give rise to a higher TEE. Consequently, the honeybees would be able to profitably forage on lower concentrations of nectar (provided the RH was not raised as well). One study has shown that by raising the external temperature of presumably a wooden hive in an internal apiary, the honeybees start collecting from flowers of lower nectar concentration; yet collect the same amount of sucrose by increasing the total number of flights, thus satisfying the model's prediction.

    TEE… is a function of: the honey ripening rate, which one expects honeybees to maximize; nectar concentration, which the honeybees try to maximize from what is available; ambient temperature, which is out of the honeybees control, and finally the lumped thermal conductance.

    In the models above, decreases in hive thermal conductance give rise to an improvement in thermal efficiency, which in turn gives rise to an improvement in HEM (figure 4), which allows more nectar to be desiccated to honey. Thus, one would expect from the analysis that decreases in hive conductance improve honey yields.

    If TEE was an evolutionary driver of honeybee behaviour, we may expect the nectar desiccation process to take place in a part of the hive, where it takes less energy to maintain a higher temperature. This is shown by honeybees preferentially depositing nectar in the upper portions of their nest, i.e. above the brood nest. The temperature stratification above the heat source of the temperature-controlled brood area, reduces the heat requirements and air movement energy for honey production. The insulating properties of empty comb enable losses to be reduced away from the walls of the nest which aligns with the observed behaviour of depositing nectar on combs not facing the outside walls.

    The requirement to retain elevated temperatures, and hence reduced RH where the desiccation is taking place, shows an all year round advantage for nests with low thermal conductance.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    clong:

    I ran-across this research article this morning, and the results seem to square with your thoughts about developing lower overall hive body thermal conductivity:

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rsif.2018.0879
    Russ,

    Wow! That is all I can say. How do you find the time to gather all this great research? Does Beesource pay you a salary? :-)
    Right now I can't take the time to read this, but I will be pouring over it Monday. Many thanks for finding this article and posting the link.

    Curiously, most of the research I've read on insulation, and forgoing top ventilation has been been from the British.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Curiously, most of the research I've read on insulation, and forgoing top ventilation has been been from the British.
    I wonder if this is a function of their climate?

    I really don't spend as much time on research as you might think. I monitor a few beekeeping Facebook pages, and when I see posts of new research, I read the abstract to see if it is anything that is helpful/relevant to TF or advancing practical apiculture in general.

    Have a great weekend.

    Russ

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Russ,
    Curiously, most of the research I've read on insulation, and forgoing top ventilation has been been from the British.
    After seeing the author's name, I should have said most of the research I've read was done by Derek Mitchell.

    Fascinating paper. I'm still trying to make sense of the graphs, especially the Thermal Energy Efficiency graphs in figure 1.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Fascinating paper. I'm still trying to make sense of the graphs, especially the Thermal Energy Efficiency graphs in figure 1.
    My dumb country boy understanding of it was that the less energy a hive has to use on curing and subsequently successfully maintaining their honey stores, the farther the colony was willing to fly for forage and the lower sugar intensity nectar they would be willing to gather due to a logical (and fascinating) inherent knowledge of the break-even point of a particular forage source based on a complex interaction of both internal (their cavity) and external (forage quality and distance) parameters- collecting only those sources that result in a net accumulation of stores.

    The key take-away was that a more highly insulated colony envelope would result in a net increase in surplus honey gathering as a result of extending both the distance and variety of sources that the foragers would be willing to gather.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    The key take-away was that a more highly insulated colony envelope would result in a net increase in surplus honey gathering as a result of extending both the distance and variety of sources that the foragers would be willing to gather.
    Excellent summary.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Hive Report 2/4/19

    The temperature today at 5pm was 61F. All the bees were bringing in POUS. - Pollen of Unusually Small Size. It was light tan in color. I’ve seen bees in the chicken feeder, so maybe it was from there.

    On Saturday Feb 2nd, I checked on the runt hive, 1801. I’ve been watching it carefully. Some days I could only see two very short seams of bees. With warmer weather, I took a look through the inner cover. A couple dozen bees were buzzing about frenetically, while other hives were huddled in clusters. I thought it was being robbed. I plugged up the entrance to one bee-width.

    The following day, I went in for a proper inspection. The queen was present, and there were a lot more bees than I thought. No sign of ripped comb or robbing. Fooled me again. Maybe they are Russians.

    The largest poly hive, 1803 consistently maintains interior temps 20F – 30F above outside temp. On Jan 22nd, outside temp was 10F, inside temp was 38F 2” from the edge of the cluster.

    The other hives look good.

    Hive, Cluster Loc, Diam., Config., Notes
    1702, Top SE, ~5”, 1 10F box,
    1801, Top SE, 3”, 1 10F box,
    1803, Top SE, 6”, 2 10F boxes,
    1806, Top CEN, ~5”, 1 8F box on top of 18” jumbo F
    1811, Top CEN, 6”, 2 10F boxes, hauling small chunks of sugar out front entrance

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Hive Report 2/4/19
    CLong:

    Good update- 5 out of 6 so far, right?

    So you can still afford to have #1801 drop-out and be at your target overwintering percentage?

    Best of success to you in this upcoming year.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Russ,

    Yes, 5 out of 6. I think 1801 is just toying with me. I am a little bit surprised to still have five alive.

    Now the new problem is to prepare for 5 hives potentially building up and swarming. Right now, I only have 14 empty 10-frame mediums to work with. I better get busy.

    Thanks for the good wishes. Same to you.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Now the new problem is to prepare for 5 hives potentially building up and swarming. Right now, I only have 14 empty 10-frame mediums to work with. I better get busy.
    Now that's a good problem to have . Congratulations.

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Here are a couple pictures of the insulated boxes I’ll be using this year. They still need to be painted.

    Insulated Medium (corner).jpg
    Insulated Medium (top).jpg

    I am moving to permanently insulated boxes for 3 reasons:
    1. Better winter survival. I’ve seen the difference myself, along with some anecdotal evidence.
    2. Better health for the bees. I haven’t seen any formal proof of this, but I have my suspicions.
    3. Better honey production. There is anecdotal evidence of this, and research backs it up. See Derek Mitchell’s latest paper:
    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...eid=8425a04372

    I am currently using some polystyrene boxes, but I am in favor of boxes like those above for the following reasons:
    1. Wood interior (scored) allows for bees to create propolis “envelope”.
    2. Stronger hive bodies. My worry has been poly boxes with several full honey supers above might crush.
    3. Ability to retro-fit existing equipment.
    4. Insulation can be easily removed or replaced.

    The materials are ¾” hive body, 1” rigid foam insulation, ¾” 1x6 cut into 1 ¾” strips. The only thing holding the cleat on is 2 screws. I question whether the two screws will be enough to hold a full super of honey. Any pointers on how to improve the design would be appreciated

    This design was borrowed from Bob Stewart as seen in the following link:

    http://www.stewartfarm.org/docs/Stew...ee%20Hives.pdf
    Last edited by clong; 02-08-2019 at 06:42 PM. Reason: added link

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Any pointers on how to improve the design would be appreciated
    Clong:

    I am watching your results with great interest. I have previously considered utilizing the Apimaye hive (https://apimaye-usa.com/), but beyond the cost implications, my other rationale for not pursuing this option was the lack of ability to be integrated with traditional woodenware. Your approach seems to provide a means to successfully incorporate this concept into existing equipment.

    Best of success to you with this project- please do keep us all posted.

    Russ

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,916

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    "Any pointers on how to improve the design would be appreciated"


    Clong, I would offer this suggestion. Wrap a 3/4" x 3/4" strip around the top and bottom of each box and fill the recess with a piece of 3/4" foam. Cover everything with 1/4" plywood, attaching the plywood to the strips. Handles screwed onto the plywood should be strong enough to lift a super full of honey. This way you can still paint the outside of the hive and not get moisture trapped between the foam and the hive body. Just a thought.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  17. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,299

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Just a thought.
    Great idea, JW. Sounds like a very robust option.

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    JWPalmer,

    That is a good idea. I actually envisioned building a hive something like that. It sounded like too much work. :-) (Your proposal is a lot simpler) It would, however, get a lot closer to Rev. Langstroth's actual design. He is often faulted for "his" hive's thin walls, but the ideal hive he proposed was well-insulated.

    One of the things that I've puzzled over is whether the foam inevitably shifting, and protruding past the wood would cause stacking problems.

    The second is moisture getting behind the foam. Folks who winter by wrapping with rigid foam don't report problems, and Mr. Stewart didn't report problems so far as I know.
    A Virginia summer is an entirely different matter. I am going to let these boxes go, and later this fall, I will remove the handles and foam from a box, and see how bad it looks.

    I PMed a response to you today.

  19. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    Hive Report 2/15/19
    62F and cloudy.

    Checkerboarded 4 out of 5 hives with two mediums containing alternating honey/empty comb.
    The dink hive got one medium of honey/empty frames. Hopefully, the extra space is not too much for them.

    The hive with the jumbo brood chamber is still hanging in there. The jumbo looks like an abandoned warehouse.
    The 8 frame medium box sitting on top still looks good, with closed brood present.
    I plan to move the 8 frame medium onto a bottom board and add a couple checkerboarded boxes during the next warm-up.

  20. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,180

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    great report clong. congrats on the overwintering success.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  21. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: clong 2018-2019 Treatment Free Experience

    squarepeg,

    Thanks.

    About one year ago, I checkerboarded with 8 frame mediums and struggled.
    Hopefully this year goes better with 10-frames mediums.

    I won't declare complete success until April 1st.

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •