Immigration, bee style. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    ...I think we are following the rules.
    And we are exercising restraint. Appreciate the perspectives here and thanks for the input!

    Jeff
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Sybille, even in the 70's, I understood that the German government was having a problem with the Gastarbeiter program. I do not follow German politics, so I do not know how this situation is being handled, but your comment makes me think they have have ended it with the idea of self preservation. Unfortunantly for us, these folks may not all be worker bees, ready to contribute. Many are economic refugees to which our country does not grant asylum. I do pray for a peaceful end, just as I pray that a combined hive will emerge stronger and unified.
    We Germans invited the guest workers after the war and urgently needed them for the re-construction.
    But we did not integrate them, we wanted to get rid of them later. But they have remained and this has meant that many of their children feel accepted neither in their home countries nor in Germany. This is sad, because when you work in the industry like me and my husband, it is quite natural that you perceive foreigners and refugees as human beings, not as foreign nations.

    We have many german bred people who do not want to contribute either. We even have a TV show about them.

    The bio-Germans, who feel threatened in their prosperity and do not know how to express their insecurity, are a loud minority. There are criminal cases with original Germans as well as with the others, but the press usually only mentions the foreigners. And remember the RAF with their terrorist activities.

    It is a political problem. More and more, we are governed by the economy and the financial world. This fosters fears and for those you need an outlet. Scarecrows like in our past.
    Our politicians are weak and populistic or they just sit and do nothing, it's easier to fuel hate than to work on improvements.

    I pray too. I pray for the pendulum to go back to the other side away from the hate, and elections in germany shows it might do. Thanks to the young generation.

    Economic refugees? Well sure. Arenīt we all? Are your ancestors native or did they immigrate?

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    My maternal ancestors immigrated from Prussia in the 1840's. They became farmers in in Nebraska and Missouri. Half my family tree is nothing but German surnames.
    Everyone in the Americas immigrated here at some point in history, even the so called native americans.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  5. #24
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    Feb 2018
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    Melrose Park, IL, USA
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    My maternal ancestors immigrated from Prussia in the 1840's. They became farmers in in Nebraska and Missouri. Half my family tree is nothing but German surnames.
    Everyone in the Americas immigrated here at some point in history, even the so called native americans.
    My moms paternal side were both born in the same village in Hungary. They came to the US in 1914 right before WW1. They met 50 miles west of Chicago. I recently found out he had a visa that did not require him to learn english. The Chicago & Northwestern RR sponsored him because there was a "shortage" of fireman. Her maternal side came from Germany, Austria and Switzerland between the 1840-60s. They were farmers, shopkeepers and politicians in Eola and Aurora IL.

    My dads maternal side came from Ireland in 1730. He fought in the Revolutionary War in two enlistments with a brief stint of farming in the middle. They moved through Athens OH to Carbon IO. The Smith side came through Athens OH to Carbon IO but no idea from which country or when. Can only document back to the 1880s.
    ks

  6. #25
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Comparing what humans do with what honey bees may be interesting but a few things should be considered, Geographic Borders are artificial, created by humans. And bees tolerate the presence of many other insects and mites in their hives, such as small hive beetles and varroa mites. Both negative, however that relates to this discussion. But there are many other insects that live in beehives too.
    Mark Berninghausen

  7. #26
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    Jul 2016
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    Somerset, NJ
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    332

    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Americans buy billions of dollars worth of illegal drugs every year. Those billions are funneled to Central American drug cartels which have essentially taken over those countries. Most of these people have two choices, leave or die. What would you do in that situation? Many people in this country need to develop more compassion.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Mark Berninghausen

  9. #28
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    Jun 2013
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    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    I agree with Mark and jonsl

    Nancy

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    This is the very reason we have a legal immigration process. I believe that as a whole, Americans are the most compassionate people on earth. We give away billions in economic and humanitarian aid every year. Individually, we donate large sums to charities that are dear to us. I even gave money to a homeless person today. It is not compassion we are lacking, but a deeper understanding that there will aways be pain and suffering in this world. It often times goes against our giving nature but lines must be drawn, rules must be followed, and laws must be obeyed. If we try to help everybody, we won't be able to help anybody.
    If you combine a bunch of weak hives with a strong hive for the winter but do not have additional resources to give them, what may have been enough for the strong hive to survive is not enough for them all and all will perish.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #30
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    Sedgwick Co. KS
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    ...and I agree with JW.

  12. #31
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    Somerset, NJ
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Yes, and this is a situation caused by Americans so we should be obligated to help out.

  13. #32
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    For one reason or another large areas of the globe have seen populations and consumption footprints outpace the carrying capacity of the environment. Too many colonies for the forage area! Top that off with considerable increase, in real terms, of the cost of fossil fuels for the beekeepers to supply emergency feeding to bridge unfavorable weather conditions etc, and you have a very difficult systemic problem. Robbing happens!

    Man should be able to rise above the instinctive behavior of bees but civil norms seem to lose their effectiveness when survival of the hive is threatened. Man the beast has a very thin veneer of civility. My bees are very laid back when the flowers are blooming and the sun shines; I gently slid a top cover back to have a peak today in a bit of a dull drizzle, and some unmistakable warning shots were fired in my direction.

    On a species level we seem to have created a bit of a tough spot for ourselves. I am not so sure our instinctive behaviour is the answer but appears to quite possibly have been a good part of the problem.

    All the bees have to do is be bees!
    Frank

  14. #33
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    Apr 2004
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    Central CA.
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    Yes, and this is a situation caused by Americans so we should be obligated to help out.
    No! It is not caused by Americans. ...and I agree with JW.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    We are buying the drugs produced there, aren't we Flyer Jim? If we stopped maybe the economy in Honduras would be based on something else making the society there more liveable.

    I don't know how we could best address the problems in Central and South American Countries. And it seems like any time we stick our noses in where they are not asked to be we screw things up for others and ourselves. But we do bare some responsibility, I think.

    Cutting of aid because a President doesn't keep his citizens home is, in my opinion, not going to get the result that Trump thinks it will.
    Mark Berninghausen

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Again, let's be careful. We have a spot for threads that move in this direction. See this link regarding Coffee Klatch: https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-Read-Me-First
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    If you will notice, if you can, Tailgater is virtually none existent. No conversations going on there. Maybe because those who can go there have left Beesource for Forums where they can more easily discuss what they want to.

    Since only folks who are Tailgater "members" can access Tailgater why isn't Tailgater included in New Posts?
    Mark Berninghausen

  18. #37
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    Apr 2014
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    We are buying the drugs produced there, aren't we Flyer Jim? If we stopped maybe the economy in Honduras would be based on something else making the society there more liveable.

    I don't know how we could best address the problems in Central and South American Countries. And it seems like any time we stick our noses in where they are not asked to be we screw things up for others and ourselves. But we do bare some responsibility, I think.

    Cutting of aid because a President doesn't keep his citizens home is, in my opinion, not going to get the result that Trump thinks it will.

  19. #38
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    Apr 2011
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    Asotin County, WA
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    Default

    That’s just another reason for stronger boarders. If we could keep those drugs out it would be less of a drain on our society, and less power for the cartels. If they’re politcal leaders were not corrupt and actually used the money we give them to clean up their country it would also fix this problem.

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Ports of entry is what needs to be addressed. 70% illegals fly into this country only 30% come through the border. AHB don't walk across the border they fly just saying.

  21. #40
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    Jul 2016
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    Chesapeake, VA
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    Default Re: Immigration, bee style.

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Treading lightly...If these folks are attempting to gain access through legal channels, I applaude them. My concern is that one does not typically amass an army of individuals when the intent is to knock politely on the door. I would view this more as an AHB swarm attempting to take over a more gentle established hive. OK, not exactly, but it is as close as I can come and still keep it in terms of the bees.

    BTW, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world is The Great Wall of China. Anyone remember why it was built and by whom?
    While I am not responding to the topic of this thread, becuse it is a sad attempt to interject politics into a beekeeping forum, I just cant ignore your statement that the great wall of China is one of the 7 wonders of the world. It was not! They were as follows: the Great Pyramid at Giza, Egypt, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon,the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, Greece, the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus,the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, the Colossus of Rhodes and the Lighthouse of Alexandria, Egypt. Additionally up to 1 million forced laborers died building it. While it had some advantages it basically failed to stop many of the invasions it was meant to prevent. On top of that it everntually fell into disuse and is now a tourist attraction due to it legacy as one of the greatest engineering feats that ended in one of largest wastes of the Chinese Government's time, resources and human lives ever.

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