GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. - Page 5
Page 5 of 24 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 470
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    No, it's NOT.........

    In short, we need to be cautious when claiming any material to be 'natural' - i.e. as occurring in Nature, without human involvement.
    LJ
    There are synthetic materials (e.g. nylon) as they just do not exist in nature.
    There are natural materials that have been simply mechanically reordered for more convenient consumption (e.g. wool or cotton or other natural fibers).

    Now there are petrol-based polymers.
    Yes, the building blocks for these polymers exist in nature (ethylene - C2H4, for example).
    But it takes much more manipulation to build petrol-based polymers to the usable state - I get it.
    No, such polymers are not natural enough for me as they do not rot easily.

    That is my resolution to the problem.
    If you rot naturally, quickly and produce no toxins, you are natural enough.
    Good enough for me.

    PS: but the use of polyethylene film in developing nucs is beneficial beyond doubt; I think I will try this in coming summer anyway.
    Last edited by GregV; 01-12-2019 at 08:12 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,881

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    MSI, hahahaha!
    Seriously, I had a good laughter.
    I am glad you enjoyed my parting gift, one last one... Instead of pollyfilm, try reflectix

    Writeing takes a lot of effort for me, many of my posts take me well over a 1/2 hour
    Long and short is 2 posts I made here last night disappeared.
    Be it something nefarious (like it felt at the time), or just an IT glitch(more reasonable view in the morning light) , The amount of frustration I felt over wasted effort bought to light just how much effort I had been wasting.
    catch ya in the spring

  4. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    So, energy efficiency and moisture management is an immediate issue at hand for the zone 5 in Southern WI.
    GregV:

    Sounds like you are well ahead of the curve, and I look forward with interest to read your future chronicles- I imagine there are some definite parallels between appropriate home and hive construction practices depending upon climate (to a point).

    Have a great day!

    Russ

  5. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    So as of today's check I am down to 10 units.
    One half-dead nuc I will not count - a matter of time when they will croak.

    So these ten unites are worth keeping afloat now (being mid-January).
    Three of these are the random swarms (including the "stupid" bees discussed above).
    Six of these are the two survivor lines I am trying to maintain (three units of each).
    One unit is a survivor line coming from an outside known source.

    Overall this is 10/14 survival so far.

    Also documenting wintering cluster sizes I have going (in deep Dadant frame size) - 10, 8, 7, 7, 6, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 2.
    The tiny 2-frame nuc is being heated and is fine.
    The others I am not concerned for, outside of checking the stores in early February now.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    1. Sure.
    People even combine bees in winter - no sweat. I posted videos.
    Actually, about 25F-35F is about the best temp to check them - no flying.
    .....
    Thanks!
    And what do you know, this same keeper just did a mid-January apiary audit.
    Several units got candy based on the findings.

    The cool part - his is combining one unit into the other hive.
    This is an emergency - he is suspecting a queen-less colony (the restless one); meanwhile another colony is loosing bees and chances of making it are low.
    Here you go - mid-winter combine.
    Temperature -4C.
    Jump to 22.00 to watch the combine in action.
    There are more details of interest, up to you to notice.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slbPxaFGA28
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    There are more details of interest, up to you to notice.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slbPxaFGA28
    I am amazed by this- it's 25 degrees F and he is very deliberately leaving the lids off both hives while he describes what he is doing. Not only that, I saw that he gives the frames a second shake after leaving them outside for a bit to pick-up a few more stragglers on the combs. Amazing!

    You pointed-out that the first hive (active one) was suspected queenless- was this diagnosis because of their restlessness?

    The title of the video translated that the purpose of the supplemental feeding was to treat against Nosema and another disease that I am not sure it translated correctly- did he outline his rationale in his monologue?

    While I did not see him take the lid off the first hive, I noticed that he applied his plastic sheeting and a quilt before closing everything up- was this put back the way he found it?

    Thanks again for the interesting video- just goes to show there are lots of different ways to keep bees.

    Russ

  8. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    I am amazed by this- it's 25 degrees F and he is very deliberately leaving the lids off both hives while he describes what he is doing. Not only that, I saw that he gives the frames a second shake after leaving them outside for a bit to pick-up a few more stragglers on the combs. Amazing!

    You pointed-out that the first hive (active one) was suspected queenless- was this diagnosis because of their restlessness?

    The title of the video translated that the purpose of the supplemental feeding was to treat against Nosema and another disease that I am not sure it translated correctly- did he outline his rationale in his monologue?

    While I did not see him take the lid off the first hive, I noticed that he applied his plastic sheeting and a quilt before closing everything up- was this put back the way he found it?

    Thanks again for the interesting video- just goes to show there are lots of different ways to keep bees.

    Russ
    I believe the fear of cold in the US is over-blown to the point of being irrational.
    Partly so because US for the most part is rather mild/warm/subtropical region.
    This somehow defaults to the idea of bees being very susceptible to cold.
    Well, the bees have lots of robustness in them (the northern bees maybe especially so due to the long evolution in cold climates).
    Thanks to the youtube - seeing is believing.

    Queen-less bees - he told a short story about "why"; there was some history there; here was pretty sure after seeing their status.

    Artemisia is routinely added to sugar feeds in East Euro (syrup or candy) - a good natural treatment from Nosema. He did that.
    However, there was a discussion of his "no-insulation" way contributing into the diarrhea - bees have to really work hard to maintain cluster temps with no insulation.
    They consume much more food and the intestines fill up too quickly - a big problem in mid-January in colder regions (2-3 more months before flying weather).
    I tend to agree - no-insulation maybe an over-kill.
    Some light insulation would be better (a light blanket).

    He did apply the plastic and a blanket to the most stressed bees, after giving candy to them - at that point the bees are pretty much ON the frames and are exposed - have to cover them.

    In general, it was not a good picture - too many problem colonies.
    Some colonies started brooding (easy to determine by just how hot they are running, by hand) - not good - too early.

    Many ways - yes.
    But the fear of cold is overblown here - they should be well fed and dry most importantly.
    However, too little insulation makes for inefficient wintering - takes lots of carbs to stay warm, obviously.
    I think this keeper a little-bit too much into "no-insulation".
    But also the wild swings in the weather have been bad and screwing the normal bee cycles - he complained on that (just like weather here in WI anymore).

    There are also seasonal nuances:
    - until February you do not want to over-insulate - this promotes brooding start too early;
    - sometimes in February, you do want to add insulation - to promote brooding start and help them conserve energy when brooding
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Winter is the reading time..

    Found this gem published in Russian (translatable).
    2015
    A good work about traditional bee-tree/log hive beekeeping of Bashkorostant:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Bashkortostan

    Here is one quote (page 152):
    ....found in hives invertebrates of 11 orders, 15 families, 16 genera and about 20 species...
    (meaning conventional hives)

    ...found in bee-trees and log hives invertebrates of 14 orders, 30 families, 29 genera and about 40 species....
    As you can see, the log hives have 2x the invertebrate life over the managed hives.
    I don't want to even think about micro flora and micro fauna present in them.

    The bee-trees/log hives are still managed using "twice-per-year" methods.
    No treatmens of any kind, of course.
    This is really the old-time traditional way.

    Lots of good staff; will put up more later.
    Last edited by GregV; 01-15-2019 at 10:14 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #89
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV;1691253[url
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292151551_Temnaa_lesnaa_pcela_Apis_mellifera_melli fera_L_Respubliki_Baskortostan_Dark_forest_bee_Api s_mellifera_mellifera_L_of_the_Republic_of_Bashkor tostan[/url]
    Off-topic, but I was just reading the story "How Much Land Does a Man Need" by Tolstoy with the kids, in which the main protagonist went to buy land in the Bashkirs- with tragic results...

  11. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Artemisia is routinely added to sugar feeds in East Euro (syrup or candy) - a good natural treatment from Nosema. He did that.
    However, there was a discussion of his "no-insulation" way contributing into the diarrhea - bees have to really work hard to maintain cluster temps with no insulation.
    They consume much more food and the intestines fill up too quickly - a big problem in mid-January in colder regions (2-3 more months before flying weather).

    There are also seasonal nuances:
    - until February you do not want to over-insulate - this promotes brooding start too early;
    - sometimes in February, you do want to add insulation - to promote brooding start and help them conserve energy when brooding
    I had to look up Artemisia- I assume this refers to the plant in the aster family (i.e. wormwood)?

    The idea of coordinating insulation up top to help support appropriate brooding is an interesting concept- makes sense.

    I can also appreciate how a drafty cavity would increase both the consumption of stores and the threat of Nosema.

    Thanks for posting the video- that was interesting stuff.

    Russ

  12. #91
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    ....(i.e. wormwood)?........Russ
    Yes. One of those.
    Don't know the exact species (there are several).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  13. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    South Waikato New Zealand
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Winter is the reading time..

    Found this gem published in Russian (translatable).
    2015
    A good work about traditional bee-tree/log hive beekeeping of Bashkorostant:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Bashkortostan

    Here is one quote (page 152):

    (meaning conventional hives)



    As you can see, the log hives have 2x the invertebrate life over the managed hives.
    I don't want to even think about micro flora and micro fauna present in them.

    The bee-trees/log hives are still managed using "twice-per-year" methods.
    No treatmens of any kind, of course.
    This is really the old-time traditional way.

    Lots of good staff; will put up more later.
    So....my question is.....Why?
    Why such a huge difference?

    Second question is how do we/I get our hives back to having such a wide range of???? ...I dont even know what to call it.
    I was going to say genetic diversity, but its much more than that and I cant find the right words.

    I know that my hive has had over winter, 3 other lifeforms-slugs, native cockroaches and ants, 4 if I count the one centipede.
    I was thrilled with this even though cockroaches are THE one bug that make my toes curl...but you are saying they could have much more.
    So, How?

  14. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,062

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by mischief View Post
    So....my question is.....Why?
    If hives that are worked more are doing worse, there is something wrong with the beekeeping.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  15. #94
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    South Waikato New Zealand
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    I wasnt asking about hives doing worse, I was asking about why such a difference in other lifeforms in those hives compared to so called managed hives.

  16. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,062

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Why would you think?
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  17. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    South Waikato New Zealand
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Thinking is good

  18. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by mischief View Post
    So....my question is.....Why?
    Why such a huge difference?

    Second question is how do we/I get our hives back to having such a wide range of???? ...I dont even know what to call it.
    I was going to say genetic diversity, but its much more than that and I cant find the right words.

    I know that my hive has had over winter, 3 other lifeforms-slugs, native cockroaches and ants, 4 if I count the one centipede.
    I was thrilled with this even though cockroaches are THE one bug that make my toes curl...but you are saying they could have much more.
    So, How?
    Well...

    1)Difference is obviously showing how the conventional, managed hive micro-environment is.... crappy;
    being routinely chemically treated is not helping in any way (be it even "harmless" OA - it still does not belong in the hive - no one really understands the entire complexity);
    micro-climate of the conventional hive is a part of it - conventional hive being essentially a modified fruit crate for convenience (how the large scale industrial beekeeping started)

    One quote in the book is this (loosely translated) - "a properly constructed bee-tree should work up to 150 years".
    Historically, a beekeeping family would own thousands of bee-trees; the trees would stay in the family for generations.

    Notice, they actually build those bee-trees since the natural bee-tree are few and are less convenient to work.
    Typically, they would carve a hive (it is called - bort') into a living tree so that the tree keeps growing around the hive.
    When doing so (the hive carving), they mimic the natural bee hollows as closely as possible - just the common, historic way (you mimic what you see exists naturally).

    This legacy bee-tree business is doing well despite being negatively affected by the varroa, incoming from the surrounding conventional apiaries.
    Anyway, a large topic.

    2)How....
    The traditional bee-tree style beekeeping has many immediate answers, actually.
    Not all answers are logistically convenient, but still doable.
    I am gradually digesting a couple of books I have handy.

    This is not for mass pollination/mass cheap honey production/mass bee-for-sale production businesses.
    Last edited by GregV; 01-16-2019 at 08:52 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  19. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,407

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    I appreciate other perspectives from other parts of the world. If we could only see more material from Brazil where they are working with African hybrids.

    I watched that video and have to say I wasn't impressed with the clusters he had. It looked like to me the hives could have used more protection. As for the cold combines, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. And of course its the spring when the results really show. To insulate was a decision I made as I figured a hive box was a poor proxy for a tree hollow in terms of protection. Less work keeping warm, less eating, less starvation, less loss of bees, and ultimately more honey for me was part of the thinking process. I don't insulate snugly, rather I tape together a dome of rigid insulation that I can take off and do a hive inspection in the middle of winter if I have to. It keeps the wind off, allows some moisture to escape an probably hopefully create a zone of warmth in the upper part of the hive.

  20. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,097

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by lharder View Post
    ....... It looked like to me the hives could have used more protection. .....
    Lately in that region they are getting into almost too much into experimentation, IMO.
    I say they experiment much more then here on the west.
    This is both bad and good.
    I am really pleased looking at the equipment options originating from down East.
    I also appreciate the folks sharing their experimentation - told them so few times.

    Speaking of the insulation, there is now a "no-insulation" crowd (as was presented), based on the premise that "the bees do not heat the hive". Well, that too depends on the equipment.

    Tree-type/warre-type hives are doing much better with no insulation and only insulated cover.

    Single box Dadants, on the other hand, are not doing too well with no insulation - too much energy dissipation - we just observed that. Even a minimal blanket on the top would be improvement.
    But 10R poly slab is an overkill too - they just stick to it as the warmest place in the hive; they eat all the honey through the tops, and they quickly run out of the stores in close reach.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Historically, a beekeeping family would own thousands of bee-trees; the trees would stay in the family for generations.
    I noticed that Wikipedia indicates that some scholars think that the original meaning of Bashkir is "beekeeper". Sounds like there is quite a long and storied beekeeping legacy in that region.

Page 5 of 24 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •