GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Per what I see so far, I expect to 11 out of 12 to make it into the year 2019.
    That sounds like a banner overwintering percentage, and something you can really build from next year. Congratulations.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    That sounds like a banner overwintering percentage, and something you can really build from next year. Congratulations.
    Well, making into the "year 2019" only means they will make it into January 1st, 2019.
    First pollen here comes in March (maybe February if weather goes nuts and not exactly good - too early).
    Plenty of chances to croak still.
    But yes, if that many make it through January 1st, it will be a good sign and new problems to solve (problems of the good kind, to be sure).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Plenty of chances to croak still.
    No doubt of that- but it is good, I think to harbor a little optimism. I remind myself of Ecclesiastes 11:4: "He who watches the wind will not sow and he who looks at the clouds will not reap."

    I expect most successful beekeepers are eternal optimists at heart...
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  5. #44
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    I expect most successful beekeepers are eternal optimists at heart...
    not so sure.... but it seems most failed ones are
    in my experience the realists prosper, understand the problem and do what it takes, don't let dogma over rule performance

  6. #45
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    I expect most successful beekeepers are eternal optimists at heart...
    Well, my oldest son finally understands me better in a way (he is 18).
    He, basically, classifies me somewhere in between cynics and skeptics and pessimists.

    Eternal optimists are many of those who think "I counted the mites and I treated by the book - I am OK now" OR "I got a swarm of feral bees and they must be resistant - I am OK now"...
    Both ideas are just plain silly.
    Should not depend on either idea in its entirety.
    The thing is - you are never OK.
    The "OK" does not exist as the reality is fluid and outside of our full control.

    So, basically, I assume I will lose bees and no IFs or BUTs about it.
    I just don't know how many and which exact units I will lose.
    Given this assumption, I am then trying to distribute the eggs into the variety of baskets so to keep playing in the game.
    It is a really fun game, folks.
    All it is to it.
    I am a gamer!


    Added:
    check out some great multi-player, opponent-attrition board games like Carcassonne or Risk;
    beekeeping is just like these games, just played in actual reality on very real landscape.

    Adaptability, and continuous adaptation, and avoiding excessive specialization let crows and rats to be successful.
    Have to learn from rats and crows - from the successful, un-destructible generalists.
    Last edited by GregV; 12-17-2018 at 10:07 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    in my experience the realists prosper, understand the problem and do what it takes, don't let dogma over rule performance
    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    So, basically, I assume I will lose bees and no IFs or BUTs about it.
    In my opinion, you are both quite correct. I suppose when I refer to optimism I do not have in mind a pollyannaish view of life/beekeeping but rather a generally positive (forward looking) outlook in the face of certain set-backs and disappointments.

    Growing up on a ranch, I learned that death is inevitable- so in light if this reality, ranchers don't let an individual failure or even a series of failures (a bad year) define their success. As you both wisely pointed out, you recognize the cold, hard realities associated with your goals and hopefully use both your successes and (maybe more importantly) your failures to inform your future decisions, rather than giving up in despair.

    GregV: sorry for sidetracking your thread... I'll attempt to keep my philosophical thoughts to myself going forward. Enjoying reading about what you are doing.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    ..GregV: sorry for sidetracking your thread... I'll attempt to keep my philosophical thoughts to myself going forward. Enjoying reading about what you are doing.
    Not a problem!
    Thanks for the discussion, in fact.

    Your ranch experience fits very well with my experience too.
    It was like this - you want to eat? then you go and butcher a couple of chickens or a pig and dig yourself some potatoes. Then eat.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    It was like this - you want to eat?
    Certainly makes it easier to appreciate the food when you have such a direct connection to it.

    Thanks for all your advice.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  10. #49
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    This is regarding:
    https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...01#post1685601

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    ...
    1% reduction in body size?
    I do not believe it.
    Just to be consistent with my non-belief, I did the math computing the cylinder volumes so to see the volume ratios, anyway (using for the cell measurement inputs data from MB's site).

    So the approximate cell volume difference between 5.5mm and 5.0mm is about 30%, indeed.
    The claimed 1% bee size difference in cell volumes "5.48 to 5.08" just does not look reasonable.

    I think the math shows well that resulting bee size differences (even within the same colony when using NCs) could easily vary within 25-30% in body volume.

    Cell Size Comb width Cell Width Cell Volume Cylinder diameter Cylinder radius Cylinder length Cylinder volume Cylinder volume percent diff
    5.555 mm 22.60 mm 5.555 mm 301 mmł 5.555 2.7775 11.3 273.7261108 156.29%
    5.375 mm 22.20 mm 5.375 mm 277 mmł 5.375 2.6875 11.1 251.7384609 143.74%
    5.210 mm 21.80 mm 5.210 mm 256 mmł 5.21 2.605 10.9 232.2584917 132.61%
    5.060 mm 21.40 mm 5.060 mm 237 mmł 5.06 2.53 10.7 215.0574382 122.79%
    4.925 mm 21.00 mm 4.925 mm 222 mmł 4.925 2.4625 10.5 199.9269891 114.15%
    4.805 mm 20.60 mm 4.805 mm 206 mmł 4.805 2.4025 10.3 186.6782261 106.59%
    4.700 mm 20.20 mm 4.700 mm 192 mmł 4.7 2.35 10.1 175.140565 100.00%
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #50
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    but we don't measure bees by volume
    We don't measure size by volume....
    a 1x1x1 cm box holds 1 cc volume
    a 2x2x2 box is only twice the size, but holds 8 cc, 8x the volume

    going from 5.4 to 4.9 is a 9.25% reduction in Width
    if your chart is accurate, going from 5.375 with a length of 11.1 to 4.925 with length of 10.5 is a 5.4% reduction in length
    in our past conversion, I sited Baudoux (1933), witch was the largest recorded change in body size I am aware of.... 5.55 to 4.95 gave a 13.5% change in sized, as measured by thorax width.
    I gave you 3 other studys showing only small changes, and pointed out genetics was one of the bigest factor
    the one your stuck on was AMM, and you know you self from all your Russian research that some stocks don't like small cell, even if raised on it they often will draw bigger cells. the study was showing that AMM bees size shrank very little on SC.

    I here people talk about there "small bees? but often they are seeing what they want... many case we are talking about 0.5 mm or difference in Width, Baudoux (1933) was 0.56mm ... I know I can eye ball that

    I also noted that Baudoux (1933) 4.95 cell bees were 0.57mm BIGGER then Spivak and Erickson (1992) 5.37 cell bees....
    ya the small cell bees were 18.8% bigger then the large cell bees.

    once again genetics was one of the biggest factor

  12. #51
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    but we don't measure bees by volume
    ...
    once again genetics was one of the biggest factor
    No, we don't measure bees by their volume, clearly.
    But we measure the cells by volume (that in turn produce those bees and there is a correlation).

    All in all, it is about particular phenotypes that we care about (genotypes are outside of a regular beeks' perception anyway).

    We'll see how the winter develops.
    Still sitting on 12 units here (though one more nuc will probably croak soon).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  13. #52
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Wanted to make a note regarding the "swarm" department.

    So far this season I successfully killed two Russian queens due to my repeated foolishness.

    To receive these queens I made up two small split-away nucs from a captured swarm of unknown origin (some sort of commercial Italian-like bee).
    I figured - this is a throw-away swarm anyway and might as well use them up for other projects.
    (As of 2 weeks ago check, the swarm itself is still alive - so go figure).

    Well, apparently these Italian-like bees brought along enough of a mite load that the Russian queens could not turn things around in their little nucs.
    Both nucs croaked (even heaters did not help).

    I should have created those queen-intake nucs from more robust bees (really, could have spared few bee frames just fine).
    Greed got in a way and resulted in queen losses.

    Obvious Lessons Learned:
    * put the captured swarms into a quarantine yard and let them fend for themselves (that's what people who know have been doing);
    * do not reuse any brood/bees away from the captured swarm (danger of mites!)
    * if survive into the next season, apply OTS to them and keep in quarantine for another season, I guess (but the very initial round of weeding out should be done).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  14. #53
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Your antics are a regular source of amusement.

  15. #54
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by clyderoad View Post
    Your antics are a regular source of amusement.
    If you read them, that's all it matters to me.
    Why spend the time practicing creative writing, otherwise.
    I am too lazy and too busy to run my own blog.
    Hehehe.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Creative writing?? Ok.


  17. #56
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Delete.

  18. #57
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    You know, it takes a bit of work and creativity to make a readable post if you care to be read.
    Might as well make it worth the reader's time.
    English 101, kinda thing.
    Last edited by GregV; 12-28-2018 at 12:17 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  19. #58
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Just commenting on the fact that I deleted my own post. Case of self censorship. I think I was violating the rules of the forum and it was a wasted comment anyway. At any rate good luck!

  20. #59
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    Case of self censorship. ...At any rate good luck!
    Thanks!
    Appreciated.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Down to eleven hives officially.
    This particular yard had three sister queens - down to two sisters now.
    The remaining two hives I expect to winter fine; looked normal.

    This hive originated from one of my better queens and I had hopes for it.
    Was a random 2-frame nuc as I had an extra QC to park someplace.
    They built-up nicely by the summer end.
    Well, through the fall they started shedding the bees at an unsustainable rate and finally the end came.
    Today found the expected picture and cleaned out the hive.
    20190106_164330.jpg
    20190106_164408.jpg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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