GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. - Page 28
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  1. #541
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    Beekeeping is not a job, it is a lifestyle. We may work hard for no money, but it is the last profession with some sort of freedom. Which is priceless.

    Land of the free.
    Sounds good.

    Don't tell about this money-free lifestyle to my wife - she earns no money and has no access to healthcare on her own (being a very busy homemaker).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #542
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post

    I wish the US was small-business friendly - it is not - must have a corporate-sponsored health insurance just for the basic stability (yes, I am well aware of the ACA - not getting into it).
    Hi Greg, I have not "opened" business in several countries, So I am asking here out of curiosity. Which countries are "more" small business friendly than the US? I have friends in Canada and Europe and the feeling I get is it is not easier there. I am not talking of the small under the table cash type set up but a real business like you are referring to? There are more small business in the US than almost any other country so I am trying to wrap my head around the statement. As I recall there are more people working for "Small business" in the US than any other country as well. Sure the red tape is not fun but almost every farmer and shop owner has to do it or they could not be a "business".

  4. #543
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Hi Greg, I have not "opened" business in several countries, So I am asking here out of curiosity. ......
    While some "red tape" can be found anywhere (people love to gripe over little things even), the biggest obstacle by far is (in the US) marriage of the social benefits (primarily the healthcare) to the employer.
    This trumps just about anything.
    Without the basic, guarantied social benefits - we are back to the Wild Wild West (not exactly what most want) - so we have to be employed by someone who provides such benefits.

    (I don't particularly care to find out how the ACA recipients work it out, if this what it takes to be an independent - the ACA itself is still in the air per the current politics).

    Sure, I know small business owners personally - it works fine AS LONG AS your spouse/partner works a corporate-type job and provides the healthcare coverage for you.
    Certainly, IF your age entitles you to the basic, guarantied social benefits - that is another case where you can be "independent operator" (at the expense of your age).

    Like I said, if not for my corporate-sponsored/large group healthcare coverage, I'd get financially slammed out this year alone had I been an independent small operator - thanks to few ER visits.
    Under such conditions, running an independent small business without some kind link into a corporate system makes a very poor choice.

    Having (or not having) standard twice-per-year dental checks is a good indicator of your stability situation.

    As far your question, GG, no matter how much I google, US does not make it into the top 10 as the "most business friendly" country.
    https://www.forbes.com/best-countrie...t/#tab:overall

    A huge part of the problem, as one French expat puts it (he is in the US now) - "I want to run my business and that is it. I don't want to run the benefits department. I am not in the benefits business!"
    Last edited by GregV; 01-03-2020 at 12:44 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #544
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    While some "red tape" can be found anywhere, the biggest obstacle by far is (in the US) marriage of the social benefits (primarily the healthcare) to the employer.
    This trumps just about anything.
    Without the basic, guarantied social benefits - we are back to the Wild Wild West (not exactly what most want).

    Sure, I know small business owners personally - it works fine AS LONG AS your spouse/partner works a corporate-type job and provides the healthcare coverage for you.
    Certainly, IF your age entitles you to the basic, guarantied social benefits - that is another case where you can be "independent operator" (at the expense of your age).

    Like I said, if not for my corporate-sponsored/large group healthcare coverage, I'd get financially slammed out this year alone had I been an independent small operator - thanks to few ER visits.
    Under such conditions, running an independent small business without some kind link into a corporate system makes a very poor choice.
    Having (or not having) standard twice-per-year dental checks is a good indicator of your stability situation.

    As far your question, GG, no matter how much I google, US does not make it into the top 10 as the "most business friendly" country.
    https://www.forbes.com/best-countrie...t/#tab:overall

    A huge part of the problem as one French expat puts it (he is in the US now) - "I want to run my business and that is it. I don't want to run the benefits department."
    Ok so the health care side of it.
    Well lots of other countries have health care as a "state benefit" So then the taxes are higher to cover the health care, and it is managed by the state. not sure I want that either.
    Health care currently is in flux so I guess post next election , we will see if we run toward socialism or toward something else. I understand both sides of the argument so no need to delve deeper. I am in the same boat as you are, My Corp job is mostly for the Benefits. Benefits came about BTW as an end around the high taxes of the past.Rather than pay you and have it taxed at 50% they added the benny to your job role, as a corporate expense. "Groups" may soon be possible, We are currently waiting on a ruling from the supreme court "about association health care plans" then a "group" beekeepers for example could form and get group rates and not need a corp to sponsor it. Maybe it will work out. the one constant to plan for is change...

  6. #545
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    ......."Groups" may soon be possible, We are currently waiting on a ruling from the supreme court "about association health care plans" then a "group" beekeepers for example could form and get group rates and not need a corp to sponsor it. Maybe it will work out. the one constant to plan for is change...
    I hope so, GG.

    In fact, I much rather prefer "groups" based on your residence association (supported by your physical residence address).
    There could be a "village group" or a "city group" or a "county group".
    If these happen indeed, going for an independent operator status becomes a real option (in bee-related business, for an example).

    Until then, I don't really care for many of the "freedoms" supposedly available to me.
    They are un-affordable.

    Anyway, we are WAY off topic.
    Back to the bees!
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #546
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    In my area, if the bees "die off" I better get those combs fast or small hive beetles will have ruined everything.
    If the bees die during the winter or fall the cold will actually preserve the comb, and in Spring you could put these dead colonies onto the surviving colonies.

    Here in North Carolina the summers are our longest dearth and so could be actually harder on the bees than winter. I don't disturb the bees during the summer dearth because I have noticed that it stresses the bees to death. I will feed gallons of thick sugar syrup afterwards if I ever do disturb a colony in summer (curiosity on how the bees go through dearth).

    But where GergV lives it seems that Winter would be his most losses during the year from living in Wisconsin with harsh winters. So his plan could work out well for him. lol

  8. #547
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaplozygousNut View Post
    ....
    But where GergV lives it seems that Winter would be his most losses during the year from living in Wisconsin with harsh winters. So his plan could work out well for him. lol
    Yes, for me the late fall/early winter die-offs are the best.
    I get lots of stores at my disposal AND the storage issue is immediately solved until spring.
    Starting the holidays, I have been harvesting non-stop - C&S honey, bee bread, propolis, combs to sort through.
    There is way to go still.
    But I got until about March/April to do it.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #548
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    There is way to go still.
    Keep plugging-away, GregV. I enjoy reading about your efforts.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  10. #549
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    moderator note: bernhard's and gg's last posts were straying away from greg's experience thread but are worthy of discussion and moved to this more appropriate thread:

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-thread/page16

  11. #550
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    I had a private talk regarding C&S harvest as opposed to conventional centrifuge technology.
    As for me, I concluded, I prefer C&S in the homesteader setting and the small scale.
    Having been doing both, I dislike the rush and the volume and the mess in the kitchen when doing the conventional extraction (and the resulting honey too - meh).

    C&S for me is a low-impact, no rush, gradual activity done along the way of routine life - producing the superior product at that (something about honey curing is actually a valid thing, IMO). Whenever I feel like doing it and have time, we do C&S bit by a bit.

    Select a frame that needs termination as unfit for long-term maintenance:
    20200112_141849.jpg
    Destroy the comb:
    20200112_143551.jpg
    Use the basic kitchen utensils:
    20200112_143908.jpg
    20191229_201305.jpg
    Set aside for few days and forget:
    20200112_150234.jpg
    Last edited by GregV; 01-13-2020 at 02:00 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  12. #551
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    When remember about it, collect honey for yourself and the residue for the bees to cleanup (and later wax extraction).
    20200110_222745.jpg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  13. #552
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    I had a private talk regarding C&S harvest as opposed to conventional centrifuge technology.
    As for me, I concluded, I prefer C&S in the homesteader setting and the small scale.
    Having been doing both, I dislike the rush and the volume and the mess in the kitchen when doing the conventional extraction (and the resulting honey too - meh).

    C&S for me is a low-impact, no rush, gradual activity done along the way of routine life - producing the superior product at that (something about honey curing is actually a valid thing, IMO). Whenever I feel like doing it and have time, we do C&S bit by a bit.

    Select a frame that needs termination as unfit for long-term maintenance:
    20200112_141849.jpg
    Destroy the comb:
    20200112_143551.jpg
    Use the basic kitchen utensils:
    20200112_143908.jpg
    20191229_201305.jpg
    Set aside for few days and forget:
    20200112_150234.jpg
    Hi Greg, Was this frame from a dead out? Also I see you left a bit of comb at the top of the frame that should get the next comb started.
    Was there any sections of comb with pollen/bee bread with honey capped over? Holding up to a good light will show it. This could be eaten as is. Looks like a good frame to retire. nice Pics
    GG

  14. #553
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Hi Greg, Was this frame from a dead out? Also I see you left a bit of comb at the top of the frame that should get the next comb started.
    Was there any sections of comb with pollen/bee bread with honey capped over? Holding up to a good light will show it. This could be eaten as is. Looks like a good frame to retire. nice Pics
    GG
    Indeed a dead-out, GG.
    A good example of substandard/old comb that I decides to harvest.

    I have two cross-sections of dead outs photo-documented - I mean to post - long hives.
    Interesting study cases of how the long hives operate.

    Yes, I left about an inch of comb on the top (it contains a plastic starter strip inside anyway).

    Yes, there are always some cells with bee-bread embedded in such dark frames (notice, this is a dark brood frame).
    Question typically is - how many?
    The bee bread then give some of its taste to the honey - which I find a plus and really like it.

    I will set the C&S output onto the bees in early spring - this will be a combined honey/bee bread feed for the bees in - they love to pig out throu this stuff.
    Actually, the remaining post C&S wax/honey mix is quite tasty just to chew on as well.
    I'd have some tea and be chewing on the C&S stuff.

    Funny, but this reminds me how you'd keep chickens/pigs in a household - all the left-overs go to them.
    The same with my bees.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #554
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    My Absolute Favorite is the bee bread covered in Honey, eat as is. I bet you do have a bunch of subtle flavors, with the bee bread and dark comb. Making me hungry....doesn't help today is a fast day.
    GG

  16. #555
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Sure, GG.
    I make sure I always have container full of honey combs to just eat.
    Some of those combs contain both bee bread and honey - everything goes.

    For example, when the honey cells are not capped (and the honey is suspect as in - "it will not store well") - those combs go directly onto the "honey trash" glass container.
    My spouse's favorite - she is always digging through that "honey trash".
    She'd let me know if she is running out of the combs to nimble on!

    Actually, here it is - the "trash bin":
    20191229_195601.jpg

    We also have a honey/bee bread mix jar going.
    Us, the parents, always eat a spoon-full of the mix every morning before breakfast (kids stay away from it - looks very suggestively of p-o-o-p).
    20191125_085439.jpg

    I periodically shred a frame and harvest bee bread to make the mix.
    This frame I recently shredded for bee bread as we ran out (most all worker cells were plugged up; what not plugged up - drone cells):
    20191208_140509.jpg
    Last edited by GregV; 01-13-2020 at 06:29 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  17. #556
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    As for me, I concluded, I prefer C&S in the homesteader setting and the small scale.
    GregV:

    I enjoyed the photos and tips you posted on C+S. I've done a bit of it with a small comb press I inherited and would have done a much better and cleaner job had I read your posts first.

    As Gray Goose noted, good photos. They certainly aided in my understanding of what you are doing.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  18. #557
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    GregV:

    I enjoyed the photos and tips you posted on C+S. I've done a bit of it with a small comb press I inherited and would have done a much better and cleaner job had I read your posts first.

    As Gray Goose noted, good photos. They certainly aided in my understanding of what you are doing.

    Russ
    The key with C&S - you only chop the combs first (in fact, I prefer a cold frame immediately from the outside - precisely because the combs are fragile and fragment better).
    Let it all drain at its own speed (I don't care if it takes few days - my honey is cold initially and drains slowly).
    Once drained - only then you press (if care to squeeze more honey out - which I don't).
    Last edited by GregV; 01-16-2020 at 01:09 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  19. #558
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    The key with C&S - you only chop the combs first (in fact, I prefer a cold frame immediately from the outside - precisely because the combs are fragile and fragment better).
    Let it all drain at its own speed (I don't care if it takes few days - my honey is cold initially and drains slowly).
    Once drained - only then you press (if care to squeeze more honey out - which I don't).
    Good advice- I am storing this back for next time. Will certainly save me a lot of headaches and mess...
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  20. #559
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    -1
    5/19 (26%).
    Now, this is quite natural survival rate.


    Winter is hammering now at the remaining survivors.
    A nuc cluster got stuck and froze inches away from their honey.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #560
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    Default Re: Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Winter is hammering now at the remaining survivors.
    Sorry, GregV.

    This is where I think that those of us at lower latitudes have a much easier time attempting treatment-free, but I could certainly be mistaken.

    We have only had two nights in the teens thus far down here, and lots of flying hours to-date.
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

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