T F with granulated sugar?
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Fultonville,New York,USA
    Posts
    704

    Default T F with granulated sugar?

    I had a old beek tell me he was TF and he would use screened bottom boards with sticky boards. He would cover the bees in granulated sugar and they would clean each other off. Them doing this would remove mites. Anyone ever hear or try this? How do you get all the bee's covered in sugar?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,170

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    i wonder if he meant powdered sugar instead of granulated.

    randy oliver has a few articles on this page about it:

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/varr...nical-methods/
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,850

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    There isn't much difference between powdered sugar and granulated sugar that has been ground finer (perhaps in a blender).


    Commercial powdered sugar typically has a small amount of cornstarch added to reduce 'caking' of the sugar.

    My opinion is that dusting with powdered sugar "can" work to reduce mite levels ... BUT ... how effective it is depends on how frequently the sugar is applied.


    Note that under the rules of this TF forum, using powdered sugar to control mites is considered a treatment. See: https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ue-Forum-Rules
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,882

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    There isn't much difference between powdered sugar and granulated sugar that has been ground finer (perhaps in a blender).
    Fakhimzadeh, Ellis and Hayes (2011) Physical control of varroa mites (Varroa destructor): the effects of various dust materials on varroa mite fall from adult honey bees (Apis mellifera) in vitro. Journal of Apicultural Research 50(3): 203-211.
    suggests other wise
    ground sugar dropped 39.19% more mites then powdered sugar, and killed 24.47% more bees..
    wait what?
    yes powered sugar kills bees. and In fact if you look ad E Rademacher Et Al - ‎2017 , Effects of Oxalic Acid on Apis mellifera OA trickle would seem to kill less bees then powdered sugar... and by outher works, OAV is less then the bolth of them

    Powder sugar treatments are all about the beekeeper...not the bees.
    if you have to resort to treatments to save your stock.....use one that works, and is safer on the bees.... powdered sugar is not it!

  6. #5

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sickdog5 View Post
    I had a old beek tell me he was TF and he would use screened bottom boards with sticky boards. He would cover the bees in granulated sugar and they would clean each other off. Them doing this would remove mites. Anyone ever hear or try this? How do you get all the bee's covered in sugar?
    Iīve done it.
    You canīt use powdered commercial sugar because of the starch. Powder some sugar without starch in a coffe grinder. Put no granulated sugar into the top of the hive, powdered sugar will come out at the bottom granulated though because of the humidity of the interiour.
    Use 200g for a 10 frame deep dadant size.
    Use a sieve and a spoon like icing a cake, brush it gently into the frame spaces. Close the hive and wait 10 Minutes.
    Take out the floor board, use water to solve the sugar and sieve to count the mites.
    Do this every 2 days for ten times and you have taken as many mites as with OAV.

    Do it in summer it must be dry and warm. The bees start grooming and vibrating off the mites.

    I treated one colony with thymol because it is too late in year for me to use sugar treatment or take out capped brood frames to freeze.

    The sugar treatment like that killed no bees despite people saying it. The sugar shake in a container to count mites kills bees.IMO.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Isle of Wight, VA
    Posts
    2,771

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    yes, I do use the Domino's powdered sugar on my topbar hive bees (17 colonies this year, keeping bees since 2013) on a monthly basis for varroa control. I guess it really doesn't count as true TF, but it is the only thing I am using for varroa control. (not all of mine get a brood break and capped drones are rarely removed since I'm breeding queens from multiple lines). They say Randy Oliver says it doesn't work, but I actually ran across a blog post where the writer had received a response from Randy where he said it depended on the number of times it was applied, etc. (http://countryrubes.com/blog/messing...sting-results/)

    The way I apply mine is with an Oxo kitchen sifter. I pull each topbar out and park it on the wooden bar as a pivot, tip each bar slightly to one side, dust the bees with the sugar, then pivot the other way, and dust that side. All bars/bees gets done. Preferred application is monthly, but some of my hives didn't get done that frequently this season. Sugar roll mite counts are less than 3/300 bees for my hives. As a side note, I also have all screened bottoms with solid IPM boards in underneath with diatomaceous earth on the solid IPM board. That way, the mites that are groomed off, fall into the DE to die and don't climb back up on the bees to reinfest them. I have only had one solid bottomed nuc, that I had from another beekeeper to get her hive started, and I could visually see the mites crawling around on the bottom of the hive after a sugar dusting.

    I have a video on my FB page of how I did this on Jan 1, 2017 after seeing mites on forager bees outside the hive. That hive recovered nicely that year and provided multiple splits that spring and summer. https://www.facebook.com/topbarbeehi...5149227178268/

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,804

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    According to post#5 that would be 4 and 1/2 pounds of sugar ground in a coffee grinder and dusted over the frames 10 ten times. You would have to be very dedicated!

    Bee pro claimed he sliced the mites off with a small razor!

    I am surprised the bees survive the aggravation. How does this play out for run mill bees in Texas and Arizona?
    Frank

  9. #8

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    Crofter,
    ten times is in case of emergency.
    One time now and then is prophylactically but then you must start in spring and do it every 3 or 4 weeks.
    I understand itīs not fo commercials.

    My bees had no problem. They never attacked ( the watchers at the entrance were not dusted). I really believe itīs not much to them.
    I just did it too late in season so the bees were already damaged.

    Many european hobbyists now do this kind of treatment, there are even units for it to purchase to blow the sugar in. Then you need less sugar and itīs faster than an OAV.
    The reason the beekeepers do it is the microfauna to be saved.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Fultonville,New York,USA
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Guess I should have put it in the Chemical Free forum instead

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,170

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sickdog5 View Post
    Guess I should have put it in the Chemical Free forum instead
    no big deal, the post is fine for this forum.

    i think rader was alluding to the fact that your older friend might not be considered tf by some.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,850

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    I was simply pointing out that - contrary to the thread title - using sugar to control varroa mites is a "treatment".

    Its not that sugar may (or may not be) benign; the very fact that one is intending to control mites makes the application a treatment, regardless of the substance used.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sickdog5 View Post
    Guess I should have put it in the Chemical Free forum instead
    Also note that Sugar in any form is still a chemical. In any case, not all coke's are a Coke which no longer contains coke(cocaine), but does contain lots of sugar; unless it is a Coke Zero which has no sugar, but aspartame and other chemicals to make you think it has sugar.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Fultonville,New York,USA
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texanbelchers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sickdog5 View Post
    Guess I should have put it in the Chemical Free forum instead
    Also note that Sugar in any form is still a chemical. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.beesource.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] In any case, not all coke's are a Coke which no longer contains coke(cocaine), but does contain lots of sugar; unless it is a Coke Zero which has no sugar, but aspartame and other chemicals to make you think it has sugar.
    Well sugar is a chemical ok didn’t know that. I drink Coke and Pepsi. I don’t drink Apivar or Mite away quick strips. Trying to find a way to help my bees without putting a bunch of chemicals in my hive.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Fultonville,New York,USA
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    I was simply pointing out that - contrary to the thread title - using sugar to control varroa mites is a "treatment".

    Its not that sugar may (or may not be) benign; the very fact that one is intending to control mites makes the application a treatment, regardless of the substance used.
    no I get it you are right. Didn’t realize it is still a treatment even though it doesn’t involve chemical. Ohh wait sugar is a chemical. Never mind

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sickdog5 View Post
    Well sugar is a chemical ok didn’t know that. I drink Coke and Pepsi. I don’t drink Apivar or Mite away quick strips. Trying to find a way to help my bees without putting a bunch of chemicals in my hive.
    Just poking fun; we're all trying to figure out the best path.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,740

    Default Re: T F with granulated sugar?

    Hey Sickdog if you eat vegetables you are probably eating some OA also a chemical. But powdered sugar or ground down sugar are the treatments of choice for the shareholders of Domino's Sugar.
    Johno

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •