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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Beecavalier, I was simply responding to Charlie Bs comment regarding why people can't be content with 8 frame Lang's. There was no rant or ill-will intendend towards anyone. Any new design or concept that gets more people interested in this pastime is a good thing. I think the flow hive is "cool" too. And like the Honeycomb Hive, time will tell if it has a place in the larger scale beekeeping picture.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    For trhe same reason wasabi's honeycomb hive will probably sell like hotcakes when it hits the market.
    Just googled wasabi's kickstarter, **** near died laughing. It is cool though, just can't see myself maintaining 100 of them.

    Don't get me wrong - I do see entertainment value in flow/honeycomb hives. But pushing these hives for mainstream adoption is akin to marketing observation hives for honey production.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by hypsin View Post
    But pushing these hives for mainstream adoption is akin to marketing observation hives for honey production.
    Interesting comment...and you've lumped in Flowhive with this group. So do you have first hand experience with running Flowhives that you could share with the forum?

    July 11a2017.jpg

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Beecav, your picture is kind of how I envisioned a commercial application of the flow hive concept would look. Best analogy I can come up with is commercial egg production. Instead of asking us to justify our reservations, pehaps you could help us to better understand how you have made it work for you. A little clarity through the fog of doubt? The idea of a small scale honey producer using the system is intriguing and it certainly seems that you have the experience to make it feasible.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim KS View Post
    I did a search for topics dealing with 'flow hives'. I found a bunch dated 2016 but only two posts made in 2018 dealing with them. Apparently they didn't take off like the designers intended.....sort of a flash in the pan kind of deal....? ANY success stories out there?
    As a bee-store owner I can tell you more people who bought them came in and put their bees in regular hives.

    " Frankly, I am tired of people raving about how wonderful the Flow Hive invention is and posting it on my Facebook wall every other day. The viral-ity of this fundraising campaign has been astounding. During my travels in Central America, I even had a Belgium restaurant owner in Nicaragua ask me whether I’d heard about it.

    “I love honey. This is amazing,” you read over and over again in the comments from people worldwide who have no clue about beekeeping. The gadget allows you to harvest honey without opening the hive, and Australian inventors Stuart and son Ceder Anderson promise that there is “no mess, no fuss, no expensive processing equipment, and [that] the bees are hardly even disturbed.”

    But just because no disturbance is seemingly occurring to the naked eye doesn’t mean it’s not happening. How arrogant humans can be.

    The Flow Hive has already raised upwards of $9 million and counting. Perhaps folks genuinely want to help the bees and think this gadget is the answer. Meanwhile this is a testament that urban beekeeping is thriving.

    Supporters argue that by simplifying (or automating) the most time consuming part of beekeeping—the harvest— more people may want to take up beekeeping. More beekeeping may lead to greater support to save bees and there fore Flow Hive is a positive thing.

    Part of the proceeds go to advocacy work to save our bees!

    At first glance, I too thought Flow Hive was a genius invention that honors the bees, but after looking under the proverbial lid, I’ve concluded that it takes the bee hive and reduces it into a beer keg. It’s animal husbandry with a negative twist.

    “One wants to see this be successful, easy to use, and contribute to the world of improved beekeeping,” adds Kim Flottum, beekeeper and editor of Bee Culture magazine. “But there’s the concern, far in the back of my mind, that it may appear to make things too easy, fostering not improved beekeeping, but reduced attention to maintaining healthy bees.”

    Here are 3 reasons (there are many more) why many folks think the flow hive just adds another level of separation between bees and beings.
    1. Non-Existent Communion Between Bees & Beings

    The Flow Hive is touted as a “beekeeper’s dream.” But in my opinion, it’s a wannabe’s fantasy. The point of beekeeping is to commune with the bees, not get removed even further. There’s nothing like peeking into a hive, slowing down with reverence and care, observing these virgin sisters of toil. Bees work themselves to death why should we have their food so easy?

    Beekeeping involves putting on a bee suit (or not) and tuning into the bees to ensure that no harm is done. And if you happen to get stung once or twice, you can choose to see it positively. It’s medicinal.

    As Italian photographer and fellow beekeeper Renée Ricciardi writes,

    “Beekeeping involves respect, patience, and attention to the natural world. After years of beekeeping you become attentive to humidity every time you step outside, you start noticing which flowers bloom first, you stop hating pesky dandelions, and when it rains you think of the bees.”

    Just like there is an indescribable satisfaction about eating food that you’ve grown, there’s something magical about beekeeping. And it doesn’t involve turning on a tap. Actually many hobby beekeepers will tell you that honey is not the main attraction. Stewardship is. And that entails checking on the health of the colony, observing brood patterns, examining the queen, making sure there aren’t any parasite or pathogens, and observing the honey flow so you know what to leave behind.

    With an automatic honey appliance, you get none of that. So even though there’s a window and you can see the bees, you are clueless as to what is going on with the hive. As a friend recently stated, flow hive promotes the emotional detachment of factory farming.

    Commercial beekeeping meanwhile is a whole other ball of wax. It arduous work, involving long hours and a lot of casualties. You may likely have to 1) Get Suited Up 2) Smoke the Bees 3) Open the hive 4) Remove the honey-filled frames 5) Brush the bees from those frames 6) Use a knife to remove the capping from the wax cells 7) Use a centrifuge to get honey out of the frame.

    Flow Hive promises to remove all that “messy hard work.” Which commercial beekeeper wouldn’t be intrigued? Yet without some sort of communion, doesn’t the process kind of look like honey-robbing? Hands-off beekeeping? Free honey? Come on, it’s fast food honey that cuts corners.

    Incidentally, honey has its own flow depending on the season and is usually harvested only once a year. Will wannabe beekeepers be mindful of nature’s rhythms or gorge on honey all year round? Most beekeepers, including myself, will tell you that honey is just a bonus. I keep bees because I love having them around. It’s bee-centric. It’s not a honey-centric endeavor. That’s why they called their movie More Than Honey.

    And consider this. In her six week life span, one single bee will only produce a quarter of a teaspoon of honey. Honey is sacred.

    “I always tell beginners in my workshops, there is only one real reason to keep bees, and that is because they are fascinating. If you just want honey, make friends with a beekeeper,” says a beekeeper in Australia who goes by Adrian the Bee Man.

    2. Plastic Comb

    This newfangled honey collection system is comprised of plastic. It’s basically the Langstroth hive on steroids. The bees build their own wax on top of plastic frames and fill the cells with nectar and cap per usual. When you turn on the tap, presto— honey squeezes through the center of a plastic double-walled comb construction. Once draining is completed, you can reset the tap, and the comb goes back to its original position. Automation is in full effect.

    Bees don’t particularly like plastic, Ask any organic beekeeper. They don’t need it. They fashion wax –a living substance – out of their own abdomens. Wax is where they store their food (nectar and pollen) and house their young. Wax vibrates and changes temperature.

    “…Comb is far more than a Tupperware container for somebody else’s lunch; it is the tissue and frame of the hive and as such it forms multiple functions,” writes Beekeeper Jonathan Powell , who has a a long family connection with bees, and is also a partner with a UK Charity called the Natural Bee-keeping Trust.

    In his blog he writes:

    “Cells have wall thicknesses of just 0.07 mm, and are made from over 300 different chemical components. Wax removes toxins from the honey. The resonant frequency (230-270 Hz) of the comb is matched to the bees’ vibration sensors and acts as an information highway between bees on opposite sides of the comb. Bees manage the temperature of the cell rims to optimize transmissions of these messages. Wax holds history and memory via chemical signals put into it by the bees.”

    But instead of working with the wax comb they’ve created, the Flow Hive forces bees to deal with hormone-disrupting plastics that off-gas.

    “Honey bees are able to recognize the smallest differences in wax composition but not polypropylene,” adds Powell.

    Additionally, the best honey is fully capped. It’s like putting a lid on a jar; honeybees ripen nectar by removing the moisture and sealing it off with wax. Honey that has been harvested with a moisture content above 20 per cent and isn’t capped is considered unripe and may ferment. Traditional beekeepers slice honey caps off with a knife and use a spinner which removes honey from wax frames. They then reuse the wax in their hives once more.

    Meanwhile, in colder climates honey often crystallizes, which means the Flow Hive may clog and require heating, killing the healing properties.

    Incidentally, a Langstroth hive can be managed without any comb (so you let the bees make their own). It’s how the backward beekeepers like Kirk Anderson and Dee Lusby run their hives.
    3. “Expensive Gimmick”

    “The Flow Hive is now the largest international campaign ever on Indiegogo,” announced Slava Rubin, CEO of Indiegogo.

    They surpassed their goal of 70,000 in less than 10 minutes and raised $2.1 million in one day, setting a record for the most funds raised in 24 hours.

    For $600, you get a full automatic bee farm. But many beekeepers I’ve spoken to believe that it’s overpriced and unsustainable. Flow Hive actually costs more than a standard Langstroth hive.

    Flow Hive has been described as a possible “key” in keeping the world’s bee population from further decline.” Really? How so? This just makes honey collection simpler and easier. How does it help bees survive the issues they are currently grapplng with? Like systemic pesticides and loss of habitat???

    To quote Ricciardi once more, Flow Hive invites “lazy, hungry honey-eaters who are also terrified of being stung. It will create a generation of oblivious people who don’t know the delicate mechanics of the beautiful hive.”

    Don’t get wooed by the hype and the mesmerizing images of honey . If you really want to help bees, why not support activists like myself who works our bee hinds off for very little pay. Or get involved with Center For Food Safety or show Vanishing of the Bees to your children. Or take up real beekeeping.

    Please note that no one is saying that these people are bad. But as they say, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. and “good inventions” too.

    Not everything that has to do with bees is good for the bees.
    Manage."

    Written by the one who produced Vanishing of the Bees. Maryam Henein
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Beecav, your picture is kind of how I envisioned a commercial application of the flow hive concept would look. Best analogy I can come up with is commercial egg production. Instead of asking us to justify our reservations, pehaps you could help us to better understand how you have made it work for you. A little clarity through the fog of doubt? The idea of a small scale honey producer using the system is intriguing and it certainly seems that you have the experience to make it feasible.
    If you look at post #16, I made the analogy of honey collection from Flowhives to a dairy milking parlour. For me there are similarities...process design started with looking at a 10 frame Langstroth converted to a 7 frame Flowhive super with the drain spouts sticking out...as if it was a Holstein cow with seven teats.

    The traditional dairy industry must have been doing backflips when some divergent thinker said that he could hook up an air compressor backwards and attach that to a cow's teat and get milk...and then he could put the cows on a revolving carousel...like a merry-go-round at the circus...and milk a whole herd...must of thought he was a real nutball.

    With regards to your comment "justifying our reservations"...isn't that what a forum is for?...to advance a discussion beyond opinions...or am I missing something? I find that posting photos or videos (like Ian does) with a concise explanation very effective...talk is cheap. Most of my posts are accompanied with photos taken from my cell phone...most folk are visual learners.

    With regards to sharing my work on Flowhives to date, I'll share what I only have experience with and am competent to explain what I think may be happening. Remember I stated I have used Flowhives for 3 years now and each year I am modifying what I did the year previous. So that hardly makes me an authority on any system. But that's the process you go through...give me another 5 years and I might have something else to share. By posting a photo, someone may be inspired and develop a parralel system...and I might be able to work with that person in the future.

    However I can share this additional observation...it appears that the older the Flowhive equipment is, the closer to traditional hive production I'm getting...that's what the numbers are saying. Traditional and Flowhive colonies are run side by side. But this really has to be verified over more seasons to be statistically significant.

    July 11a2017.jpg

  8. #27
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    So you have five Flow supers on every hive. To empty all you would need to setup five manifolds and manifold them together into a container.
    At a site with 20 hives you need 100 super manifolds. You would need 20 twenty gallon containers. Each frame is 6.5 lbs of honey. For 10 frame hives with 7 Flow frames in each of the five supers you would need 20- 230 lb containers. You would need a forklift to load these full containers or fill and load 38 five gallon containers. All this would have to be kept clean and sanitary in the field, transported back and forth, and rinsed clean or be left behind to be robbed out. Then picked up later. And then rinsed.
    Is this going to be more cost effective than harvesting all the supers and bringing them back to an indoor facility for old fashioned processing?
    All of my opinions and suggestions are based on my five decades of actual beekeeping,
    not so much on book learning, watching YouTube videos nor reading internet sites.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    From the pictures I've seen it looks as though he is bringing them indoors.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Yikes. I think too many folks just don't get the scale of the efficiencies of a commercial extracting system. Is the flow hive a cool invention? Sure but just because something works on some small scale dosent make it economically viable on a commercial scale. Currently we harvest with 4 people, 2 "pulling" honey in the field and 2 in the extracting room. Two good people operating the extracting system typically run 5 to 6 hundred medium frames per hour. 10,000 lb. days are not at all unusual.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    So you have five Flow supers on every hive. To empty all you would need to setup five manifolds and manifold them together into a container.
    At a site with 20 hives you need 100 super manifolds. You would need 20 twenty gallon containers. Each frame is 6.5 lbs of honey. For 10 frame hives with 7 Flow frames in each of the five supers you would need 20- 230 lb containers. You would need a forklift to load these full containers or fill and load 38 five gallon containers. All this would have to be kept clean and sanitary in the field, transported back and forth, and rinsed clean or be left behind to be robbed out. Then picked up later. And then rinsed.
    Is this going to be more cost effective than harvesting all the supers and bringing them back to an indoor facility for old fashioned processing?
    Very intuitive odfrank...those are exactly some of the challenges one can expect...don't know about the rinsing part...wet Flowhive supers, when removed are treated like wet honey supers...left wet and stored in a bee proof building and used to stimulate colonies the next year. The collection system can be unitized and cleaned easily...this challenge of cleaning a collection system had to be dealt with in the dairy parlour also.

    Cost effectiveness...like a dairy parlour, it has the potential to decrease labor costs significantly... among other things...and as my wife astutely pointed out, put people out of work.

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Yikes. I think too many folks just don't get the scale of the efficiencies of a commercial extracting system. Is the flow hive a cool invention? Sure but just because something works on some small scale dosent make it economically viable on a commercial scale. Currently we harvest with 4 people, 2 "pulling" honey in the field and 2 in the extracting room. Two good people operating the extracting system typically run 5 to 6 hundred medium frames per hour. 10,000 lb. days are not at all unusual.
    Our traditional commercial operation used 3 to 4 people pulling honey (130 hives per day using the tipping method) and about the same in the extracting room so we weren't as efficient as you. Our extracting plant produced 25 bbls in an 8 hour day...using a Dakota Gunness flail uncapper (28 frames/minute)...but that system was set up before some of the more modularized systems were developed that you likely use today.

    With the Flowhive supers, they are put on at the beginning of the season and removed at the end of the season...that potentially eliminates so much bulk equipment being shuttled back and forth from field to honeyhouse. Some years we pulled honey four times so that meant hauling empty supers out and full ones back many times...some of our beeyards were 60 miles away from our extracting plant...a Herculean task that I'm sure any commercial guy can appreciate.

    Jim, I'll accept fault for not eventually being successful in setting up a system using Flowhives if that is the case, but not the fact that I don't know the intricacies of commercial beekeeping in my area.

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    With all the problems we're having with the bees dying, why anyone would use plastic in their hives is beyond me. They don't really like it, they make their own wax and work better without mans help. Plastic is petroleum and petroleum gives off a toxin. I like being organic and will never use plastic in my hives. -jmo
    Last edited by Eaglerock; 09-15-2018 at 11:28 AM.
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by beecavalier View Post
    Our traditional commercial operation used 3 to 4 people pulling honey (130 hives per day using the tipping method) and about the same in the extracting room so we weren't as efficient as you. Our extracting plant produced 25 bbls in an 8 hour day...using a Dakota Gunness flail uncapper (28 frames/minute)...but that system was set up before some of the more modularized systems were developed that you likely use today.

    With the Flowhive supers, they are put on at the beginning of the season and removed at the end of the season...that potentially eliminates so much bulk equipment being shuttled back and forth from field to honeyhouse. Some years we pulled honey four times so that meant hauling empty supers out and full ones back many times...some of our beeyards were 60 miles away from our extracting plant...a Herculean task that I'm sure any commercial guy can appreciate.

    Jim, I'll accept fault for not eventually being successful in setting up a system using Flowhives if that is the case, but not the fact that I don't know the intricacies of commercial beekeeping in my area.
    I see you have a pretty good understanding of commercial production. 3 drums an hour for two persons is doable with modern systems though that can be a bit frantic for two, most run 3 some even 4 persons. Daily totals are only limited by how many hours you wish to run and how full the boxes are.
    So given those basic production facts I'm having trouble fathoming how a flow system could begin to compete efficiency wise. Explain how you would be shuttling less bulk back and forth from your honey house? I cant imagine. Yesterday myself and 2 others pulled about 500 mediums (4500 frames) that will net around 15,000 lbs. In a single day, thanks to forklifts and modern stainless steel equipment, all those boxes will be extracted and stored in the warehouse and the honey stored in food grade honey drums. Is that sort of efficiency viable with flow hives? For just one day of this how many flow frames would it take, how long would it take to drain them, what sort of containers would the honey go into and how would it be transported back to the honey house. There are a lot of pretty bright forward thinking commercial beekeepers out there, are you aware of anyone trying to replicate what you are suggesting? I'm not. When I look at how we did things 50 years ago and how we do it today it tells me this is hardly a static industry stuck in yesteryear.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Explain how you would be shuttling less bulk back and forth from your honey house?
    I'm not familiar with how many pulls you do in a year and if you do only one pull, then your questioning is understandable...it's a wash. The initial placement and subsequent final removal of Flowhive supers equates to the initial supering and single (final) removal of traditional hives at end of season...no difference.

    In the case where more than one pull is done, then there theoretically is a significant difference...and we are speaking theoretically here Jim. Instead of loading 600+ empty full-depth Langstroth supers onto trucks in the morning...and then travelling to several locations and unloading 600 supers...removing honey via tipping/blowing or some other method on lets say 130 colonies...placing those empty supers on the hives... loading 600 full full-depth boxes on to the trucks...strapping down...and heading home, the following alternate theoretical scenario could happen because during the season the Flowhive supers are a permanent fixture of the hive:

    In morning beekeeper hops in truck (equipped with picker) loaded with empty food grade drums... with Flowhive frame keying tool laying on seat. Arrives at location and trips Flowhive frames with key...sets barrell(s)under honey collector drain...heads off to second location...repeats...after 5 locations returns to first location. Resets Flowhive frames that are drained...puts lids on barrells...load barrells with picker...heads home.

    There's a dozen wrinkles that have to be addressed like:

    How is robbing kept manageable? Is the honey filtered? What elevation do hives have to be to drain into a barrell or How can pumps be employed? How many barrells are required per site to prevent overflow? etc.etc.

    But I approach all these issues with the vulnerable attitude of thinking of ways it can be done...not of how it can't be done. I could go golfing or fishing...tried that...after the 3rd day of fishing that sure gets humdrum. Or I could use my previous experience in beekeeping and another career to solve these issues. In industries where there is a lot of money involved, engineering resources are thrown at problems and it amazes me what can be accomplished in a short time. That isn't the case here.

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Appreciate your comments Eaglerock.

    Honey bees amaze me...both with there vuneralbility and their toughness. Understanding them has been a life long persuit...and I really can't comment on your concern regarding plastics. I'm just not technically informed enough to say whether plastics are detrimental to honeybees or not.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Beecavalier: Yes lots of "wrinkles to address" would be an understatement. If a flow frame would average 5 lbs. then you would need in the neighborhood of 130 tubes all plumbed to flow into a single drum without robbers, insects, curious animals dust etc. causing problems and of course all this plumbing would need to either be cleaned on the spot (or temporarily sealed on each end) after the job is done. This would mean a yard of 50 hives with 3 supers per hive would require well over 1,000 small drainage pipes and if your intention is to leave and work (for example two additional yards), then your total hose requirement may well be as many as 4,000 drainage hoses with each yard perhaps requiring some sort of pumping setup. And of course all hives would have to somehow be positioned at least 4 feet off the ground and even with a pump setup they would need to be at least a couple feet off the ground to allow for honey drainage into some sort of portable sump. Frankly it boggles my mind even trying to come up with a visual of how all this might look and how much time would be involved just to pull the honey from one yard. For comparison, yesterday the three of us spent about an hour a yard pulling boxes off and we did 5 yards. We position custom honey pallets strategically between our bee hives, set the honey boxes down onto the pallets, cover the full pallet with a matching pallet to keep out robbers and dust, load the pallets with a forklift, securely strap them and we're out of there in pretty short order. Unloading all those pallets of honey in the honey house knocks the heck out of another 20 minutes.
    Sometimes we pull honey out of a yard once annually and sometimes twice, it depends on a lot of factors but one of the primary ones is segregating honey by type, something a flow hive wouldn't allow. We like to pull the early clover honey because we don't want it get darkened with the honeys that often come in late in the year, something that a single trip to pull off honey dosent allow. We always carry extra empty supers out when we do early harvests to assure that all the hives have plenty of room to work and have always noticed how quickly bees will refill empty extracted comb when set directly atop the brood nest, it really seems to stimulate the bees and give them plenty of room to spread out the fresh nectar so it gets efficiently cured.
    I hope my posts don't sound rude. My intention isnt to knock the flow hive which I think is kind of a cool little invention for backyard beekeepers, but instead to describe how high the bar is when compared to the harvesting efficiencies of most commercials operations.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Ace figured out how to run piping to flow hives and drain honey like it was maple syrup long ago Jim.
    Zone 5 @ 4700 ft. High Desert

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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    but instead to describe how high the bar is when compared to the harvesting efficiencies of most commercials operations.
    Going back to TimKS original post which I responded to requesting info on results of beekeepers that were having successful results working with flowhive...I've presented some of what I've done to date. I can't say it's a success at this point but I've got first hand experience using Flowhives in a unique way and my comments reflect that.

    Regarding the collection system with the multiple parts you take issue with, I had an issue with that also...just too many parts...but it was a wonderful starting point.

    That bar of efficiency you describe is high...but I know of beekeepers who run a lot less hives and I would consider them commercial. In Canada/Alberta, the government considers anything over 500 hives commercial but there is a commercial guy in my area that runs 200-400 hives/year and that's his income for the year...he's trimmed and trimmed his operating costs and he's an excellent beekeeper. So where is the bar if that is going to be the yardstick for measuring Flowhives applicability?

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Beecavalier: We like to pull the early clover honey because we don't want it get darkened with the honeys that often come in late in the year, something that a single trip to pull off honey dosent allow.
    What makes you think using Flowhive supers restricts you to a single pull?

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Flow Hives (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    and have always noticed how quickly bees will refill empty extracted comb when set directly atop the brood nest, it really seems to stimulate the bees and give them plenty of room to spread out the fresh nectar so it gets efficiently cured.
    Don't you think the bees in Flowhives react the same way?

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