Incubator queens? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Peal View Post
    The video is of a queen cell that has not emerged. I'm certainly not implying that I intended for the queen to consume the royal jelly after emerging. I believe you're misinterpreting rather.
    The Royal Jelly is there for larval development, yet you say "... more than enough that you know she has yet to be hungry for a moment of her life."

    Perhaps you'd then kindly clarify how this wording - which relates both to the future and to hunger - ought to be interpreted ?
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    LJ, I respect both you and Josh so I'm jumping in to help with the clarification. The wording " has yet to be hungry..." simply means that she hasn't been hungry, relating to the past up to this moment, not the future.

    John
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    The Royal Jelly is there for larval development, yet you say "... more than enough that you know she has yet to be hungry for a moment of her life."

    Perhaps you'd then kindly clarify how this wording - which relates both to the future and to hunger - ought to be interpreted ?
    LJ
    little_john,

    The video, in the thread which you are referencing, is of a queen which has yet to emerge. My comments are in reference to said video. "Has yet" refers to the past up until the present moment. It's essentially short for "has not yet" which is a bit more obvious. Where do you get any reference to the future from that sentence? You are clearly misinterpreting a very simple sentence...
    Just for reference; I've emerged and kept alive over 300 virgins this year.

    JWPalmer,

    Thanks. You have it right.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    I have a hive that is rather temperamental and found about 15 capped queen cells in it this afternoon.I tore open a few and almost fully developed queens were in them so I cut out 10 and ripped the rest out.I will be putting in a good gentle queen in a couple days but I put these 10 in the incubator.Its set at 92 this time around and will only be trying to see how long I can keep these in the incubator.Not going to pass on these mean genetics to any of my hives.They will all die in the end.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    When I end up with more cells than mating nucs I put the balance into a cheap incubator. I use small plastic capsule containers with clip on lids, drill 3 x 1/8" holes in the lid one in the center and 2 closer to the side of the lid. So I push the plastic part of the cell into the center hole and clip it over the container and so put all the surplus cells into the incubator. I normally check every few hours when they are due to emerge and when emerged put them straight into a queen cage either the California or JBZ and take them out of the incubator and leave them at room temperature put a drop of honey on one corner and a drop of water on another. when I get a chance I give them 4 young bees and will easily keep them for a week. For feeding Doolittle used to wipe a little honey around the top of the queen cell so that the emerging virgin could get a little of this honey as she emerged
    Johno.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    I got the temperature down to 92.1 and rinsed all the jzbz cages in soapy water.These last queens hatched and got them in cages in queenless hive and are doing good.Two did die but my queen candy was a little too soft and they dug down into it and buried themselves.I moved them all into cages with no candy and they are fine.Its too bad those all came from a hive that had a bad temper.These are an experiment so they will die in the end.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1d View Post
    These are an experiment so they will die in the end.
    I'm currently doing the same. I'm working on using the same colony for acquiring the larvae, for starting and then for finishing them - purely by changing the hive conditions by removing the queen for a day or two - which might be an easier technique to employ with a one-box colony than setting up a Cloake Board, but we'll see. What I'm interested in is whether the number of 'takes' will be increased by using exactly the same bees throughout the procedure. I'm using a 'Grade 2' colony for this trial, so none of those virgins will ever get to be mated.

    BTW - with my last batch of q/cells, which were roller-caged at around Day 14 in my 'natural' incubator (above a QX, above a Q+ve colony), on an impulse I put a couple of workers in each cage.
    Now in the past, I've always had a few virgins which emerged ok, but then died afterwards for no obvious reason - but this time every single one has survived. I'm not drawing any hard and fast conclusions just yet - but I'll be doing exactly the same next time. Adding bees does make virgin emergence a little difficult to identify with so many bodies milling around inside the cage - but so far it appears to be worth that inconvenience.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  9. #28
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    Apr 2013
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    Omaha, NE, USA
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1d View Post
    I have fed right as hatching,added syrup to the upside down nicot queen cut and watched them drink from it.Humidity is at recommended.Temp is 94.1. The only thing I havent done is add a young nurse bee and that will be next.
    I would go down a couple of degrees on your temp. They are obviously overheating and the smart thing to do is reduce the heat. I have a digital thermometer and hydrometer that reads 88F. I check it with a known more accurate thermometer and it is closer to 92-93F. It has nice big digital numbers, so I just set the cheap chicken egg incubator to 88F based on that thermometer. Even if you think your thermometer is correct, they are overheating, so drop 2F degrees.

    I mess with electronics and woodworking, so I will be building a pair of incubators that will have double thermostats and an alarm that will TXT me, humidity control, fans to circulate the heat, battery backup, etc... I will build them as a winter project. I have also thought about Rubik Cube size cages where I load up 50-100 attendants that support the cell and the possible virgin queen if she comes out earlier than expected. I would build in a screened honey and screened water trough that can be filled with a syringe from the outside. I have six 3D printers and have CAD skills, so production won't be a problem (OK, I am bragging... only 3 of the 6 are ever working at the same time).

  10. #29

    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    I had 8 incubated, 3 of them I had accidently cut out some brood cells as well.The workers hatched before queen, and cleaned the queen on hatching.other 5 survived a day in incubator and then for 4 days in queen cages in a queenright hive above super,where the mother does not normally go and young bees feed anyone including robber bee that hv made in.After that all 5 died.The first 3 I gave to 3 queenless hives after 5 days .2 made it and r laying.Food was soft queen candy and sponge for water.Honey kills queens if there r no licking attendant bees.

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    my understanding is that workers don't feed a newly emerged virgin and may not feed her until she becomes mated and starts laying.

    i've had pretty good luck introducing newly emerged virgins directly into the hive.

    i did this by finding a frame of open honey, shaking the bees off, and placing the virgin on the open cells of honey. without exception the virgin would start gorging herself.

    if a stray worker or two was present they might come over and check the virgin out. sometimes the virgin would hunker down in submission for a moment but then all became kosher.

    when i put the frame back in the hive i put it off to the side with the virgin away from the rest of the bees.

    so far 5 out of 5 virgins done that way went on to become mated queens.
    'no wise man has the power to reason away what a fool believes' - the doobies

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    I have two types of cages, one is the Zander style cage the other the nicot hair roller cage.
    The Zander cage is quite similar to the california style cage, just that it got a plastic back instead of wood. These got a 2 mm diameter 3 mm deep drilled recess at the bottom, which gets filled with honey or fondant, the nicot cages got recesses at the bottom too.

    Fill them with crystallized honey, it will turn liquid in the incubator. Very important, put it into the hole and cut it off flush with the top of the recesses, if you messed around with the honey, wipe the excess of. Else the hatched queen will cover herself with it.

    This way the queens can survive long enough inside the incubator. I had one queen this year, that i missed to pull out, after 5 days she was still alive and happy.

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    my understanding is that workers don't feed a newly emerged virgin and may not feed her until she becomes mated and starts laying.
    I've witnessed many times while banking queens prior to II, that virgins are definitely fed prior to mating. In fact, this is one of my selection criteria. Those virgins that get the most attention while caged are given priority in my II process. I've even seen queens emerging that were being fed before they were completly out of their cell.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    ... that virgins are definitely fed prior to mating. In fact, this is one of my selection criteria...
    very good to know ab, many thanks for the reply.
    'no wise man has the power to reason away what a fool believes' - the doobies

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Always assumed that workers feeding the queen upon hatching is what really seems to get her "energized" for lack of a better word. A virgin that hatches in an incubator without workers present will damage a few cells and just sort of slowly walk around while one that hatches in a builder surrounded by workers is quite peppy and can wipe out 50+ cells in a matter of hours.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Always assumed that workers feeding the queen upon hatching is what really seems to get her "energized" for lack of a better word. A virgin that hatches in an incubator without workers present will damage a few cells and just sort of slowly walk around while one that hatches in a builder surrounded by workers is quite peppy and can wipe out 50+ cells in a matter of hours.
    Absolutely!!

    My Opinion:
    And the "energized" comment above by Jim Lyon is one of the major reasons I feel incubators are overused. They certainly have a place in a queen rearing operation, but emerging queens in them (without nurse bees) will not yield better queens.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Absolutely!!

    My Opinion:
    And the "energized" comment above by Jim Lyon is one of the major reasons I feel incubators are overused. They certainly have a place in a queen rearing operation, but emerging queens in them (without nurse bees) will not yield better queens.
    Virgin queens usually don't live very long without nurse bees.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    They need to have food immediately. Newly emerged virgins are frantically voracious. I put some crystallized honey in the crevices of the hair curler cages. You also need to quickly get them somewhere they can be taken care of before they die.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Absolutely!!

    ...(without nurse bees) will not yield better queens.
    The queens compensate it probably later.

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjj View Post
    The queens compensate it probably later.
    Not exactly sure what you’re saying? Are you saying that queens will eventually recover from the initial dearth of being foodless during their emergence and a period after? As I stated, this is my opinion and have no scientific data to back up this claim. I will say, that I was surprised several times that queens die pretty quickly when emerged in an incubator. Yes, I’ve killed my share of queens this way. From my perspective, we put SO much effort into creating great cell builders, selecting our best queens for breeders, and drone mothers, it just seems counter productive to allow a queen to start their post emergence in such an unnatural environment. Lastly, given the development cycle of queens (of course greatly accelerated wrt the other castes) it wouldn’t surprise me that the period during and after emergence might have an impact on the quality of the queen.
    Last edited by AstroBee; 11-14-2018 at 09:27 AM.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Incubator queens?

    Why not use a queenless, free-flying colony as an incubator?? We use them all the time as cell builders/finishers...
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

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