Testing oxalic acid in honey - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    3,263

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    ....but 5 treatments in a row........ 5 treatments in a row 2 or 3 times. At some point there is an impact
    Exactly.
    While spinach/chard and the like contain OA amounts to not be concerned about, brood comb honey/perga after who knows how much OA inputs are of questionable food value if not outright toxic.

    So it turns out I harvest exactly that for food - brood comb honey and perga.
    OA just does not belong there in my beekeeping model.

    Well, looks like from above, no one is even concerned about OA accumulations in perga (especially perga for sale).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
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    5,211

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Sorta makes you wonder about RO and shop towels. Keeping OA in the hive over an extended period of time.... with supers on.
    Most treatments of OA take place after the honey is harvested, so no real issue.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    1,906

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Most treatments of OA take place after the honey is harvested, so no real issue.
    Bingo, and that is what the research shows. The people hear "OA doesn't get in honey" miss the "when used as directed by the label" part and think its open season and people advocate brood on, super on courses of 4 and 5 treatments

    The shop towel study should be enlightening when its fnished

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
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    3,263

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Sorta makes you wonder about RO and shop towels. Keeping OA in the hive over an extended period of time.... with supers on.
    Most treatments of OA take place after the honey is harvested, so no real issue.
    I just now realized - you are advertising OA vaporizers in your signature.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!
    Well...... hehehe.
    This would not be admissible in the court.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    5,211

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    I just now realized - you are advertising OA vaporizers in your signature.
    You JUST got that? Been doing it for ... years!
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,906

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    he has long proven to be a stand up guy, and has helped a lot of people he didn't need to

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
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    3,263

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    You JUST got that? Been doing it for ... years!
    Guess never paid attention (until now).
    But I am a new guy here too.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
    Posts
    2,173

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    GWW and others. Yes, I have read the studies you refer to. I was confused about them and asked a friend with a chemistry background to help me understand them. We concluded that the tests did not answer the question about how much residual OA can be expected in the honey treating with OAV like how I treat them and how I would like to treat them (supers on). Thus my curiosity about testing my honey. J

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
    Posts
    2,173

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Quote Originally Posted by SuiGeneris View Post
    The cost isn't unreasonable; even a not-for-profit entity (e.g. university) wouldn't be able to do it for a whole lot less. Gas chromatography-mass spectometry is most likely the method that would be used, and since you're looking to detect something that is in (hopefully) trace amounts, this method gets pricey. Extremely high purity gasses and solvents are needed, as is a high-purity analytical standard for oxalic acid (which is needed so that they can identify the OA in the sample and quantify it accurately).

    As an example, OA at sufficiently high purity (analytical standard purity) for GC/MS is ~$700/gram! Unless the lab was testing for OA frequently, they would have to purchase this.

    Similarly, partial purification of OA from the honey would likely have to be performed first, in order to get it into a suitable solvent. Again, unless the company has done OA from honey before, they'd have to generate and validate that method.

    It gets cheaper for subsequent samples because some of those costs are 1-time expenses (validation of the extraction process), while analytical standards are used in small amounts and therefore a little goes a long way.
    Yes, you are absolutely correct. The chemist explained this to me and they would have to purchase equipment. Another member here Pmed me that the price was cheap.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somerset, NJ
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: Testing oxalic acid in honey

    Quote Originally Posted by baybee View Post
    In that study they also say that:

    Attachment 41823


    Has it been even shown experimentally that OA accumulates in honey after repeated OAVs? This is just another reasonable and safe assumption without any available experimental data.
    I would be leery of any study that says OA is not soluable in water, since it is.

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