Swam and Supersedure at the same time?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    24

    Default Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Ok, second year bee keeping and going strong with main hive and a second hive split take from main hive just over a month ago. Today opened the main hive and I know around here prime swarm time is May through June but was slightly surprised to see about 10 swarm cells with eggs in them (no larva) even though they have if anything too much room. Right now they have a honey super with mostly undrawn comb and a double deep with drawn comb but is probably on 50% full with lots of empty cells for laying or honey. (the honey super is probably overkill for now). They are far from crowded in there, I would say they could fit in a single deep but it would be full. Now thats the background information to this question. So what troubles me is there was also about 5 Supersedure cells right in the middle (centre) of a few different frames with eggs as well. Is this more likely part of the swarm plan? It would not make sense to swarm and supersede at the same time would it? There was no question between swam and supersedure cells. All supersedure cells were right at the bottom of the frames below the drone come and supersedure was right dead centre of the frames. So would they do both at the same time?
    Not that it means a whole lot but I should mention the queen was new late last summer and she is the best layer I have seen. She is really filling the frames with a nice full pattern so I don't see a reason to supersede.

    Thanks,
    Dave
    Last edited by FarmerDave; 06-15-2018 at 09:00 PM.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Decatur / Cullman, also. 35603
    Posts
    752

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Sounds like they are planning something soon. I had that happen a few weeks ago. Cells no eggs, then rain hit and I had queen cells in All of em. Split time, or knock down Cells? Im.new too, but my plan would be to split as much as I could, and kill off all bot one nice cell for supercedure. Mabye they feel the queen isn't doing her job?

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    tell city, in.
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Swarm cells can be any where on the frame so they are all swarm cells .If they were supercedure cells there would only be a few in the middle of the frame. Sounds like they are trying to swarm.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Northern Colorado, USA
    Posts
    486

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Do you have enough equipment to split the hive? If so I would do it as soon as you can (today) and leave the queen in one hive and all of the swarm cells in another.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    tell city, in.
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    I would not leave all of the queen cells. get rid of all but two or three. if not they may swarm several time leaving you with no bees.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,610

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    5,453

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Location means little, there is no such thing as swarm or supercedure cells. There are queencells.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Swam and Supersedure at the same time?

    Well, some good reading @ Michael Bush but my bees like to be different. The article says usually numerous cells means swarm so thats what I would think I had but then it says swarm cells usually all different stages of development and mine were all eggs so I would think supersedure....Plus they were not over crowed and had a ton of room to lay in open and drawn cells in both boxes.

    Anyway turns out they were swam cells and since my bees don't like to be textbook (at least what I have read) they all swarmed a couple days after I had found eggs in the queen cells and I had not mentioned that I shook all bees off each frame and removed the cells leaving nothing. Regardless 2 days later the queen and half the hive left long before they were capped as I have read they don't leave until after that and these were not even larva yet and she was gone. Plus they had rebuild about 8 new cells and laid eggs in them before she left. And also I just checked again today and I have no new queen or any cell that a queen has emerged from so I did not just miss something on the previous inspection.

    On a side note before the swarm control debate begins I removed all cells since they were in the early stages and there is another keeper in the area here who keeps over 500 hives in single broad boxes and this is his technique to control swarming and it works well for him. (obviously it does not work 100% of the time). He just removes queen cells, makes sure they have adequate space and preforms inspections every 10 days to check for queen cells.
    Last edited by FarmerDave; 06-25-2018 at 09:47 PM.

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