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Going to try TF again.

6K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  Jadeguppy 
#1 ·
Ordered a VSH breeder this year. Due to Family problems I was unable to treat Fall or spring so I'm approaching a year without a treatment. But I lost 5 hives over the winter, most I've ever lost. However, I was not watching them and that had as much to do with it as failing to treat I suspect. I'm expecting my VPQueens VSH breeder this month. Going to graft from her and requeen all my hives and nucs and we'll see how it goes. I may decide to treat so they aren't starting with a huge mite load that I'm quit sure they have right now. A few of my hives are already VSH queens. We shall see, I really don't mind treating with OAV, been doing it for years with good success, but the only way to know if the VSH breeder can really handle the mites is to try to go TF. I'm super pleased with the VSH queens I've gotten that are production queens from VPqueen breeders. They are gentle, great layers, produce plenty of honey. So they are going to be my go to queens with or without the VSH trait.

Wish me luck!
 
#3 ·
Wow, you are certainly going full speed into VSH with a breeder queen. Will you be selling queens to help cover your cost?
I do wish you luck... I follow because I have had similar thoughts... and wish to know how it goes for you.
 
#4 ·
Haven't decided if I want to sell queens are not, I'm going to sell nucs as I've gotten really good at producing them and I over winter about 15 so I can get them to market while most are still building up. Selling nucs locally is really about covering some of my costs, it's not about making money. I work hard enough at my real job. :)
 
#5 ·
I decided to pony up for a breeder because my grafts are only one generation out and buying a breeder is the only way to know that. Otherwise you have no idea how many generations you are out from the known genetics. The closer you are to the first generation, the stronger the VSH trait is likely to be.
 
#6 ·
Finally got my VSH Breeder. She's in a nuc with a push in cage. Had 5 production VSH queens coming, it's been two full days and still not here. Tomorrow will be 3 days. In this heat, I doubt very seriously they will make it. :(
 
#7 ·
My Five VSH production queens came in today. They were all alive and are in nucs are hives tonight. :) Decided to stay TF, Didn't treat last year because of health problems, have decided to skip it as I've got 10 new VSH production queens. I'll requeen in the spring from the new breeder.
 
#9 ·
Released my VP Queens Breeder on Monday with some problems that left me worried.

Great news, I checked on her highness this morning and she is fat and sassy. :banana:

I've got 10 new VSH queens this year and a breeder to graft from next year. The number of varroa I find in the clean new oil trays is amazing. So my infestation is high. I did not treat last year or even tend the hives from summer on last year due to health issues. I am still considering treating going into fall to give the new VSH queens a fighting chance but right now I'm leaning toward leaving them be.
 
#10 ·
I have brought in a number of vsh queens. I found that if I introduced them into a highly mite infested colony they would limp along as so many capped brood were removed and the energy wasted in producing them in an already challenged colony was too much.
Those that were treated and the mite loads low managed MUCH better.
Good luck.
 
#14 ·
In California when VSH became a thing and several queen breeders were touting it, all the other queen breeders were quick to claim it as well. I mean think about it, they’re not going to say thier queens are not VSH.

I’m glad you guys are benefiting from VSH queens. I can only speak from my experience here but from what I’ve seen, it’s all BS.
 
#15 ·
Oh yea, I've bought VSH queens that weren't. But I got a little smarter and started picking the sellers off the breeder queens web site. Much better! I also love everything else about the queens and loved dealing with the seller. But even then I don't know how far and individual queen is from the VSH breeder. Is she an F1 or an F5. So I went straight to the source and bought my own artificially inseminated queen. I'll breed off her, and all my queens will be F1, locally mated from local drones. I'll let you know how it goes.

I can tell you that I love the queens I bought. Calm, great layers, great production. No complaints.
 
#18 ·
I would be careful in assessing queens in new environments introduced to local bees. Local adaptation still has to happen. Its not plug and play. That goal is not realistic. Lots of factors can muddy the waters. The danger is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The key is establishing a trait, not a queen line within the local population of bees. A trait then can be evaluated properly as to its usefulness.

When I first got my Saskatraz bees, I would say they were overall somewhat mediocre compared to imported Kona queens that produce lots of brood and honey, but at the expense of everything else so need to be treated. However, my bees overall have improved with the generations, not regressed. I now have hives that surpass everything I had the first year. The key is employing mechanisms that select useful traits. Natural selection is a useful baseline, then if one wants to get more specific, one can do further selection.
 
#20 ·
Actually I don't think the breeder queen's hive is what should be judged. I think all AI queens are single drone insemination. Her hive can't be as good at all the diverse jobs in a hive as a queen that is open mated with a bunch of drones. The real test is the F1 Daughters hives. First generation, open mated queens. The question is do those hives have a strong VSH trait and survive mites without treatments while getting the benefit of the open mated drones whose genes support all the other functions in the hive.

In my case, I wanted the first generations queens to be open mated here on my farm. Only way to accomplish that was to buy a breeder and start grafting. I got 10 queens from a guy that uses VP queens breeders this year and love them. But I don't know if they are 1st generation or 5th, and I don't know how strong the VSH trait is. But they are such good queens they're going to stay thru next year. I'll graft and replace all the others in the spring and we'll see how it goes.

The acid test is end of the year mite counts next year followed by the winter survival rate.
 
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