Direct release virgin into queen right colony? - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Suffolk, VA
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    4,228

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike17l View Post
    Cells would be better, but I need to be able to verify acceptance, so I need to be able to mark the new queen. Also, the yard is 3 hours from home, So I will not be able to confirm acceptance of a cell either. I planed to use ample smoke, but I will add a bit of honey to the plan.
    How many colonies are you looking to requeen? I've never attempted what you propose, but my guess is that the yields are going to be low. Is there no way that you can do this with cells?? You say that you "need to be able to verify acceptance", but if the old queen is removed, then that's about at good as it gets. Is it that you can't find or don't have the time to locate the old queens? Would <50% success be an acceptable outcome? That number is a total guess, but if these are full-sized queenright colonies, I would expect pretty low yields, which (if true) seems like a waste of resources (time/gas/queens). Maybe others have some queen magic to share, but I'd be looking for an alternate approach.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Orange Grove, TX
    Posts
    272

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    How many colonies are you looking to requeen? I've never attempted what you propose, but my guess is that the yields are going to be low. Is there no way that you can do this with cells?? You say that you "need to be able to verify acceptance", but if the old queen is removed, then that's about at good as it gets. Is it that you can't find or don't have the time to locate the old queens? Would <50% success be an acceptable outcome? That number is a total guess, but if these are full-sized queenright colonies, I would expect pretty low yields, which (if true) seems like a waste of resources (time/gas/queens). Maybe others have some queen magic to share, but I'd be looking for an alternate approach.
    The location is 3 hours away, I have a full time job. Someone else is making the virgins for me and I will not be able to get them sooner. I will be dropping a trailer off on a very strong flow. Time constraints are the biggest issue. I have found some time in my schedule and hope to remove queens 3 days prior to introduction. I will be dropping in their queen cups when I install them.

    Personally, I really want to use virgins, so that I can mark them prior to release. We are in an area with a heavily africanized population and I want to keep the genetics going away from that as much as possible. Marking helps to know genetics.
    South Texas Apiaries, LLC
    www.Facebook.com/SouthTexasApiaries

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,238

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    This thread made me do a search and I came up with a study that had real low numbers of queen cells being accepted with a queen in a hive and I thought it was like zero to 17 percent acceptance of a virgin and in the end it was the old queen still in the hive when checked latter.. I thought roger patterson, on the old dave cushman site covered this and was even saying that he would make them queen less for 8 days to garrentee cell acceptance. I know I had young nurse bees accept a cell with just a couple of hours tops.

    I would not be in a hurry and expect it to work. If I could set it up where I could watch it like a hawk, I might try it thinking it would fail. I am new and this is all from reading and not experiance except like I said giving young bees a cell.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    483

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Gough View Post
    Please let us know how it went.
    I checked the hive today and saw the queen still alive. I did not see any eggs though. She may need a few more days to get going.

    I went ahead and added a mixed frame of open and capped brood to the hive. I placed the frame next to the one that she was on.

    While I wouldn’t say I’m out of the woods just yet, she does have a week under her belt.
    Zone 7a - 1650ft

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Shelby, Missouri USA
    Posts
    526

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spur9 View Post
    I checked the hive today and saw the queen still alive. I did not see any eggs though. She may need a few more days to get going.

    I went ahead and added a mixed frame of open and capped brood to the hive. I placed the frame next to the one that she was on.

    While I wouldn’t say I’m out of the woods just yet, she does have a week under her belt.
    Thanks for the update!

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Orange Grove, TX
    Posts
    272

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    I introduced 14 virgins a week ago. Had 6 successful. The virgins were 4 days old. The colonies were queenless for 1-3 days prior. Virgin was released directly in top box. I put the queen cell in at the same time as the virgin. A week later 6 had eggs. The others all had multiple queen cells, I assume these were not accepted. If they had been accepted, the queen cells would have been removed.
    Over all I was happy with 43% success for the first time trying.

    I removed the in hive made cells and inserted my own into the colonies that had rejected the virgins.

    Thanks for all the advice.
    South Texas Apiaries, LLC
    www.Facebook.com/SouthTexasApiaries

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yuba County, California, USA
    Posts
    6,598

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    I know this is not exactly what this thread is about, but it is similar. A paper that goes over the process of different ways of requeening colonies without dequeening first...

    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/1...eedAccess=true

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,228

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike17l View Post
    Over all I was happy with 43% success for the first time trying.
    I appreciate the follow-up.

    43% during a strong spring flow is pretty poor success even for large colonies. I'd expect using cells, your success would have been above 85% (possibly higher). I've seen low yields before, but it's typically during mid-summer (dearth + massive dragonflies). I understand that you had several constraints, but it doesn't seem like a good use of resources to me.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Orange Grove, TX
    Posts
    272

    Default Re: Direct release virgin into queen right colony?

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    I appreciate the follow-up.

    43% during a strong spring flow is pretty poor success even for large colonies. I'd expect using cells, your success would have been above 85% (possibly higher). I've seen low yields before, but it's typically during mid-summer (dearth + massive dragonflies). I understand that you had several constraints, but it doesn't seem like a good use of resources to me.
    Considering I wanted to use virgins and not cells, this was not possible. Thanks.
    South Texas Apiaries, LLC
    www.Facebook.com/SouthTexasApiaries

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