Most of the studies point otherwise…It is logical that the Ferals have higher DWV titers because they are not manipulated. But they seem to be more tolerant than the others
If that was true, the package bee industry would have never taken hold… like the myth of the immortal bee tree it’s a good story and may have been true in an isolated case or 2…….but doesn’t hold up well in daylight.I have learned from sources who kept bees before Varroa that 10% losses were considered normal. At that time there were mainly production colonies coming from swarming multiplication and artificial swarms for sale.
I dissagree 3,00+ apairys, tracking location and mangment across a lot of difrent countrys and enviormentsYawn. Another study without context.
Yes but only in the short term. When varroa is introduced (the real crime and an indictment of modern beekeeping and the movement of bees) a massive die back needed to occur with surviving bees moving forward. This can was kicked down the road with treatment. It still needs to occur, and those who are trying to introduce resistance into their stock will occur losses one way or another.Most of the studies point otherwise…
If that was true, the package bee industry would have never taken hold… like the myth of the immortal bee tree it’s a good story and may have been true in an isolated case or 2…….but doesn’t hold up well in daylight.
. “The most importance as far as wintering is concerned, is gradually leading to the practice of only wintering colonies in proper condition; that is, with an abun- dance of young bees, plenty of stores, plenty of pollen reserves and reason- able protection. All other colonies are removed before the winter period begins. This will decrease the winter loss, but it will increase the number of hives that are empty. From our own experience we find thirty-five out of one hundred hives are empty each spring from all causes and must be replaced one way or another."
American Bee Journal, 1947
Written by Gladstone Cale, U. S. Department of Agriculture, Maryland College of Agriculture, Head of Dadant Apiaries
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5dxtbosHna7YUhiY1MwMGVzYU0
Of note 1947 was the peak year in US colonys
I dissagree 3,00+ apairys, tracking location and mangment across a lot of difrent countrys and enviorments
No boogy man snatching hives
Survival was do to how well the stock was manged
This is the reason I've long ago tuned out all the talk about losses. Everyone has their own definition of a loss and what they feel is acceptable. The only things I am certain of are that honeybees are in no imminent danger and there are a lot of politics and potential and pending lawsuits in play beneath the surface.sadly "losses" seem to be like fishing stories (even in the past)
ie I had 20 weak nucs and combined them to 10 and then lost 5 over winter.. Did I lose 5, 10, or 15 hives? or did I save 5 from certain death. did I gain not lose as I now have more then I did this time last year.
msl,select breeder queens and requeening is how you mantian a trait in your yard at a stronger expression then "natural" .
That is certainly one view, but I can't think of one domestic live stock that has been manged this way...When varroa is introduced (the real crime and an indictment of modern beekeeping and the movement of bees) a massive die back needed to occur with surviving bees moving forward
History of Beekeeping in the United States-EVERETT OERTELAs queen rearing developed into a large-scale commercial enterprise in the Southern States and Italian queens from Europe were used extensively in the breeding program, a strong, Italian-type bee predominated. Before the end of the 1920’s, however, after years of persistent requeening with southern queens, northern beekeepers largely replaced the black bees with a less nervous, Italian-type bee that resisted European foulbrood.
Nature selects for bees traits to be expressed at the minimum needed, that means most traits are lost quickly in out crossing. This keeps bees flexible and gives them a multitude of options as to what will work best and aloes the species to adapt quickly to change. The flipside is then nature prunes back what dosen't work, to the tune of 60+% a year to maintain the stock. Great for the wild, not so much for a apiary with 20 hives.In a more natural situation, bees would only perform mite control to the point where they had too. Anything more would be a waste of energy
select breeder queens and requeening is how you mantian a trait in your yard at a stronger expression then "natural" .My BF production hives have averaged 200 lbs, per, for the last two years. 100-150/per, over the decades. Well worth the cost of replacement queens every 2-3 years.
It's probably just dumb luck - nothing to do with superior genetics or not wasting time & resources on feral mutts.
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Keeping bees has been, and is now, by the majority, deemed a hazardous enterprise. The ravages of the moth had been so great, and loss so frequent, that but little attention was given to the subject for a long time. Mr. Weeks lost his entire stock three times in fifteen years.
- Quinby 1853Weeks, in a communication to the N. E. Farmer, says, " Since the potato rot commenced, I have lost one-fourth of my stocks annually, by this disease ;" at the same time adds his fears, that " this race of insects will Become extinct from this cause, if not arrested." (Perhaps I ought to mention, that he speaks of it as attacking the "chrysalis" instead of the larva; but as every thing else about it agrees exactly, there is but little, doubt of its being all one thing.
The whole point of amimal hunsbdry and slective breeding is to over come those lossesThe 60 percent figure has no relevance if bees are given decent nest sites and protected from bears
agreeded, and then some serious work on bond type selection could happen..till then any progress is wiped out in a sea of fresh imported genetics.We would expect the number of epidemics to be lower if bee movement was slowed down
it dose not, you misinterpret my statement.It also flies in the face of some tf keepers who are developing a track record more on the order of 10 to 20 percent.
The point was natural section creates natural loss ratesIt is possibly if we all just stopped mite management, and we all just stopped moving bees loses would settle in the 60% realm. Past that we are going to need to breed from the best so that there offspring trait expression is above the advrage and re queen our hives so our drones are expessing the traits at a higher level
Aren't they selecting for a bee that can be maintained within apiary with minimum treatments and other traits beekeepers value? I don't believe you're doing this, but I do think that often people conflate treatment free selection for natural selection. If humans are selecting for traits there is nothing natural about it.The TF keepers who are truly doing well on a large scale and have repeatable results in mutpul areas share one trait. Grafting from highly selected breeder queens...This alows for strong section pressure threw re queening, the removal of weak genetics, or genetics that would produce weak stock in an out cross with out the loss of hives.
yes they are, those who are just spiting everything left alive are notAren't they selecting for a bee that can be maintained within apiary with minimum treatments and other traits beekeepers value?
I don't believe you're doing this,
but I do think that often people conflate treatment free selection for natural selection. If humans are selecting for traits there is nothing natural about it.
Seeley, T.D. Apidologie (2017) 48: 743. https://doi.org/10.1007/s13592-017-0519-1msl, can you provide a more complete reference for the chart pasted in your post #28?
I find it interring you would say that....But why do you ignore Keufuss
He had a EFB problem in his Argentinian opperationThe TF keepers who are truly doing well on a large scale and have repeatable results in mutpul areas share one trait. Grafting from highly selected breeder queens
It laughably to suggest the average back yarder is going to make any sort of contribution to bee genetics. They are peeing while swimming the ocean, the other swimmers will never notice a thing. The only people who gain from such a method are the package bee sellers.But those who wish to do this probably make some useful genetic contributions to bee populations. There is nothing wrong with this for the average back yarder who has other priorities.
So why do you resist the suggestion to use the same method on a mite ridden colony?If I have a chalkbrood ridden colony that sits there, I replace it instead of waiting for nature to do the inevitable.
I am not sure what your getting at, can you explane.We also select for production and colonies that respond to swarm prevention. Its not natural beekeeping, its using natural selection as a baseline
Nevertheless, in the other direction, to make the population weaker, it has also worked, at least in my area, the hobbyists and sideliners ( no commercial big enterprise here) have achieved that.It laughably to suggest the average back yarder is going to make any sort of contribution to bee genetics.