European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results
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  1. #1

    Default European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    https://at.eventbu.com/neusiedl-am-s...altung/8793641

    The conference was a big success.

    I will tell about the discussions, interviews and ideas I was a part of in this thread and hope some of the referents will join in and share their thoughts.

    BC 2 2018 Neusiedl .jpg BC 2018 3 Neusiedl.jpg BC 2018 Neusiedl.jpg

    John Kefuss, Erik Österlund, Juhani Lunden

    and many more.....coming from Germany, UK and Poland. It was the most exciting and informative event for me.

    Thanks to John Kefuss, Juhani Lunden, Erik Österlund , Norbert Dorn ( the initiator) for permitting the interviews and for all the referents to take part in the discussions and story tellings in the hotel bar.
    It was the most positive and optimistic atmosphere.

    We are all friends now sharing this beginning of new ideas in beekeeping future!

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #3

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Yes, it truly was a great success. Thousand thanks to Norbert and Gabi Dorn for their great effort!

    Some of the participants are probably doing what I am, writing a story to their national/local beekeeping magazines. This way the awareness of TF beekeeping and natural beekeeping in general will go giant steps forward.

    There is already a new conference coming in autumn in Holland.

    The very active group FORT KNOX from Poland was presenting maybe the most exciting system for future practical steps in hole Europe. Their practical and simple approach and working together made a huge impact on me. .

    I hope that Bartek Maleta finds the time to present their project here on Beesource too, but until that in short about their work: The group of 14 TF beekeepers quarantine that in case of someone losing all or nearly all hives, the other members will help. They have written and agreed rules for what they do. They come together twice a year and if someone has experienced losses, he will bring his empty hives and will get a nuc of a surviving hive of another group member. This is to promote genetic versatility, too.
    In addition they give lectures and education about natural beekeeping.
    All in done on voluntary basis and the basis is trusting each other.


    I have outlined, little modified, a new model, I hope this is not seen anything against their way to do it, just my thoughts of making evolution of it, in case it would came to a wider use:


    Original Fort Knox:
    -distance between members 4-500 km
    -different frame sizes
    -only free matings in the home yards of the participants
    -all losses are covered

    Fort Knox 2.0:
    -distance 100 km max
    - same frame size withing the group
    - a mating station (inside the 100 km circle), used for half of the queens
    all members bring one dronehive into the maiting station
    -only half of the losses are covered by the group

  5. #4

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Many thanks Juhani.

    This is what Bartek Maleta sent to me today:

    ps. Torben Schiffer has written me an email. He wants to go with Fort
    Knox to the public and would want to implement this strategy in Europe
    ;-)
    So I gave him my e-mail to give to Torben since I´ve started a network too. I hope he will include me ( or us).
    We will meet 22.april the first time.

    Remember, Juhani, when I told you at the hotel bar about my new acquaintance?
    I spoke to him today on the phone and we decided to move my best survivor colony to him to breed queens from by artificial insemination. So he will have diversity of drone material from survivor hives.
    He is an experienced beekeeper and will have more success with queen breeding ( and more time, being retired) than me and I believe he will breed queens for the group in future if we want this.

    Well the bees started the season, foraging like crazy, nature explodes right now, weather 20°C, and I have a day job so all will be in time.

  6. #5

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Yes, it was a great conference.
    I'm happy we don't have the same opinion all of us attending including us speaking. As I said, if we all have the same opinions there will be no new thoughts and no further development, no progress. Different thoughts give food for thoughts and you have the possibility to learn something new, get new ideas and develop and improve your strategies and your management and methods. I just mention one thing here, but everyone came with comments well worth to listen too. Torben Shiffer is doing very interesting research about what happens in feral colonies in the wild. There is different things that we learn from this in how we make our hives and management. He is working on his doctorate thesis. But many there not working on any academical thesis are doing a lot of good work.
    It was also very inspiring to meet beekeepers from Poland as well as from neighbouring countries, well Poland is actually a neighbour as well (over the see).
    Erik 59N 15E
    http://www.elgon.es

  7. #6

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    I remember Torben Schiffer telling us the beekeepers even expect their bees to light up the smoker...

    And he told us the bees are regarded as lazy if they bring not so much honey, not realizing they clean the hive

    The more the bees store the more lazy they act in their household....

  8. #7
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Original Fort Knox:
    -distance between members 4-500 km
    -different frame sizes
    -only free matings in the home yards of the participants
    -all losses are covered

    Fort Knox 2.0:
    -distance 100 km max
    - same frame size withing the group
    - a mating station (inside the 100 km circle), used for half of the queens
    all members bring one dronehive into the maiting station
    -only half of the losses are covered by the group
    Juhani, there are ca. 60.000 beekeepers, and ca. 2.000.000 bee colonies in Poland. No place for true (or even semi-true) mating station, especially, when the limited group of members is considered. The same result we can get just by free matings. Perhaps, when we will be more numerous, we could organize one mating station for all of us, somewhere in forests, but it's rather unlikely in the short perspective. Remember, that we are amateurs, and we do it in our spare time, besides our day-jobs and families.

    The frame size is the least problem we have. After a few years of juggling with frames of different sizes, I can assume that I will not encounter a problem with shifting from any dimension to any other

  9. #8
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Juhani, thank You for that words under my adress and adress of our association Free Bees (http://wolnepszczoly.org/about-us/). As soon as I have some time I will start to write some information about Fort Knox in Poland, and I will translate the rules of it int English. I will try to publish (also here on beesource) all the details we can give - and we want to share it with everybody that is interested in such a project.
    Maybe before I will manage to do that, we will publish all the speaches (including mine about "Fort Knox" project) on internet, and surely we will put some links here for an example how we can group some amataurs to cooperate and do some work for selection. I'm very glad that this project met such an interest.

    My personal opinion is that it is
    a) quite impossible (as Flamenco has written) to do that in our conditions;
    b) not really the most important part (I mean genetics, and having controlled mating) - I'm not saying it's not important, I'm saying that maybe it's not the most important and that crucial to bee's health;
    c) important to keep it simple - so everybody has to have bees in hers/his yard, not to take it to some mating station

    I'm sorry not to put some details now, but after the conference I have so little time to do anything, and I haven't even started to do all that has to be done to organise with such a vast knowlage we have gathered.

    It was a great honour for me to be the part of that event. It was a real pleasure to meet Sibylle, Juhani, Erik, John Kefuss and many many other beekeepers I was following before on internet.
    It makes me (personal and as a member of the association) also proud that many people met with such an interest "Fort Knox" project, which came to life with "mind-storm" of our association friends with the "core idea" of my friend Marcin Zarek who is the coordinator of the project in Poland.

    I surely will post the details as soon as they will be translated into English!

    Thank You again - to everybody who made that event so special!
    Bartek

  10. #9

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Quote Originally Posted by flamenco108 View Post
    Juhani, there are ca. 60.000 beekeepers, and ca. 2.000.000 bee colonies in Poland. No place for true (or even semi-true) mating station, especially, when the limited group of members is considered. The same result we can get just by free matings. Perhaps, when we will be more numerous, we could organize one mating station for all of us, somewhere in forests, but it's rather unlikely in the short perspective. Remember, that we are amateurs, and we do it in our spare time, besides our day-jobs and families.

    The frame size is the least problem we have. After a few years of juggling with frames of different sizes, I can assume that I will not encounter a problem with shifting from any dimension to any other
    The giving of bees can be done by using artificial swarms so what´s the problem with frames? It´s even better to force adaptation if the old microfauna is left behind ( as long as you do not believe this is a benefit).

    In my lifetime we probably will never have a project mating place, south germany is much too crowded.

    I´m grateful for the talk I had with Juhani though, I will look for the signs of adaptation he provided.
    It is a shame so many of his customers give no feedback.
    One of my co-workers at least could tell him some of what happened with his queens.

    And I will not deny my co-workers to do grafting and artificial insemination out of my two year survivor hives if they want this, using survivor drones of both location..they themselves see a problem with inbreeding if they only use their stock. I will get back the mother queen and one daughter and this will be nice research starting for me.

    So, as a hobbyist researcher I will have 4 commercial buckfast colonies, 5 survivors of northern bee lines with their descendants which are locally adapted now, and one hive, already adapted mutts, kept in a "feral " way.
    This I want to journal in my thread here on beesource.
    Most of the descendants are mated with local treated stock so they are "Fort Knox" bees, if I may say so.

  11. #10

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Yest, just my thoughts of making evolution of it, in case it would came to a wider use:
    Quote Originally Posted by flamenco108 View Post
    Juhani, there are ca. 60.000 beekeepers, and ca. 2.000.000 bee colonies in Poland. No place for true (or even semi-true) mating station, especially, when the limited group of members is considered.)
    I did not mean you should make changes, I was thinking my Finnish readers. IF/WHEN we are applying this method to whole Europe (= wider use) it could be modified according to different conditions and the skills/wishes of the group members.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Sounds like an amazing conference. Are some of the presentations available on the web?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    Quote Originally Posted by lharder View Post
    Sounds like an amazing conference. Are some of the presentations available on the web?
    not yet, but they will be. We have about 70 - 80% of presentations recorded, but still doing some rendering. I will post a link here when we will publish them (couple of days to - I hope - max a week).

    for me it was for sure amazing. it was - to my knowledge - first treatment free conference in Europe.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    I wouldn't be too pessimistic about the Fort Knox approach. I've suggested something like it in the past, and am trying to implement it on my own as I have no local partners. I have 2 sites close together, going for 3. I would say Fort Knox 1 is more useful as it creates a situation where tf queens can mate with at least some tf drones. Queens are not mating randomly with all the drones in the country, so spatial considerations are important.

    It would be nice if beekeeping organizations would realize the scientific value of this and create zones where tf and feral bees can thrive. Lessons learned here can be used in moving much of bee management away from the treadmill of treating.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    I would also add to what Iharder has written, that if You have a mating station with "promissing" genetic material, and if You live close together and You have some potential in one location, then... you just probably don't need a project like "Fort Knox" at all.

  16. #15

    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    A summary of the topics spoken about at the conference.

    Report-BeeConference2018.pdf

  17. #16
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    very nice sibylle. many thanks to you and all who put the english version together and for posting it here.

    i'm looking forward to reading it.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  18. #17
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    Default

    Last edited by bonluk; 04-21-2018 at 11:02 PM.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    welcome to beesource bonluk and thanks for the youtube links. unfortunately the lectures are presented in german and most of the readership here is english speaking.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  20. #19
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    hallo to everyone,
    as bonluk linked - we have published the films from Austria.

    Squarepeg, not every speach is in German (if there is anyone that would help is in translating German speaking lectures and put English subtitles please write us!).



    I give specific links to the presentations:

    these are:
    - Benjamin Rutschmann's speach (German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP6yYd2d6z0

    - Wolfgang Wimmer's speach (German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le5NmRKtwcY

    - Jürgen Küppers' speach (German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcUefteoqWo

    - John Kefuss' speach (English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeXOAxnUcPs

    - Juhani Lunden's speach (English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSbBAAa1fwQ

    - Erik Österlund's speach (English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4a1bvrVyHI

    - Piotr Piłasiewicz's speach (English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XjAdlCyYns

    - my speach (English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozAnBZlNWl0

    and:
    - interview with Norbert Dorn (English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjkZ9pTHrWQ

  21. #20
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    Default Re: European treatment free beekeeping conference in Austria infos and results

    thanks for correcting me bfp. i only tried looking at a couple of them before i made my post.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

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