OAV treatment in honey producing hive - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Feb 2016
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    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    I harvest twice a year as well. I only harvest fully capped frames and I usually have partially capped frames at the time of the first harvest. So I leave them until the last harvest at the end of the year. I don't have any good storage method for wet comb here, so I stack them all back on the bees to clean them up and keep them safe. Small hive beetles would slime me in a week if I did not keep them on my bees during the dearth. I swap honey supers around to avoid having too much space to defend for a weak colony. I also have a deep freezer if my bees just can't handle the SHB, but I can only fit about 100 frames in it.

    If you do not use OA during the summer months, I assume you use thymol or a formic product during your dearth? I can't use either of those in the middle of summer due to heat. I would think that Apivar would take too long and you could not fit them in between harvests. I am pretty much stuck with using OA during that time.

    I had drones in my hives in the last week of January this year. I had my first swarm cells in the last week of February. So by mid-summer, I have had a whole lot of brood cycles which have generated a whole lot of varroa.

    My hope is the Randy Oliver works out an ideal substrate for the delayed release of OA and gets it approved for use with honey supers in place. That would be a non-temperature sensitive solution. Doesn't look like shop towels are going to be it. At least not for the humid Southeast.

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
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    322

    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    I've used the series of OAV during the dearth and it worked fine, but was a lot of labor. Last year I used MAQS at full strength ( 2 pads) and even though we had a week of temps within range, and I kept the hives as open as I dared, I lost 3 queens. I have a theory that its not the formic itsself that kills the queen, but the fact that it harms/kills the open brood and the hive blames the queen and supersedes her. Just my theory, not going to stand by it real hard, my queens are just as gone either way. This upcoming year I'm planning to give the thymol products a go. I don't know if I will ever settle on a plan year in and year out because there is just too much variability in this craft, but the bones of a monitoring and management plan are fairly established for me here. Guessing you aren't likely to see a break in temps where you are, so I see how your treatments are limited. All beekeeping is local.
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  4. #63
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    Feb 2016
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    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    Your theory makes sense. There is no massive bee die off, so it does not stand to reason that the queen, of all the bees in the hive, is somehow more fragile and directly targeted by the MAQS. Thymol will kill a small amount of brood as well, but my experience is only a dozen or so pupae being pulled and taken out to the bottom boards. I have not lost a queen, with the exception of the nuc that absconded. I blame that nuc on myself though.

  5. #64
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    Jan 2016
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    San Mateo
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    504

    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    I have a theory that its not the formic itsself that kills the queen...
    So many backyard beekeepers seem to blame themselves for not applying MAQS correctly, while the actual reason might be poor design/manufacturing of the product, which, even if one follows the instructions to the letter, results in a flash release of a very strong acid -- this kills the queen.

    I would carefully examine MAQS packages next time before application. Do the paper wraps look or feel wet? Are there cracks or tears visible on the paper wraps? If yes, then, whatever the temperatures are, there is a great risk of flash release.

  6. #65
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    Jan 2015
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    Penobscot County, ME, USA
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    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    Your theory makes sense. There is no massive bee die off, so it does not stand to reason that the queen, of all the bees in the hive, is somehow more fragile and directly targeted by the MAQS. Thymol will kill a small amount of brood as well, but my experience is only a dozen or so pupae being pulled and taken out to the bottom boards. I have not lost a queen, with the exception of the nuc that absconded. I blame that nuc on myself though.
    Quote Originally Posted by baybee View Post
    So many backyard beekeepers seem to blame themselves for not applying MAQS correctly, while the actual reason might be poor design/manufacturing of the product, which, even if one follows the instructions to the letter, results in a flash release of a very strong acid -- this kills the queen.

    I would carefully examine MAQS packages next time before application. Do the paper wraps look or feel wet? Are there cracks or tears visible on the paper wraps? If yes, then, whatever the temperatures are, there is a great risk of flash release.
    I have been using MAQS since 2011 and I have never, I repeat, NEVER, lost a queen while using it (nor any time reasonably afterward where it could be considered to be a factor). I may be a bad beekeeper, and have lost hives due to NOT using MAQS (or other treatment), but I pay strict attention to the temperature requirements and placement of the strips, as well as providing extra space during the initial application period. I have not found that there is any danger of queen loss when used as directed.

    I keep seeing these stories/rumors of queen loss, but it doesn't happen to me. Why is that? Am I just 'lucky'? Or is it more likely to be due to the fact that I am very, very careful with it?
    If you want to be successful, study successful people and do what they do.
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  7. #66
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    Jan 2016
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    San Mateo
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    504

    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBeeKeeper View Post
    I keep seeing these stories/rumors of queen loss, but it doesn't happen to me. Why is that? Am I just 'lucky'? Or is it more likely to be due to the fact that I am very, very careful with it?
    Yes, following the instructions helps. But could it be also because you are only a few hrs drive from where MAQS are made? Or because your MAQS retailer also stores them as recommended?

  8. #67
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    Apr 2016
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    Cincinnati, OH
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    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBeeKeeper View Post
    I have been using MAQS since 2011 and I have never, I repeat, NEVER, lost a queen while using it (nor any time reasonably afterward where it could be considered to be a factor). I may be a bad beekeeper, and have lost hives due to NOT using MAQS (or other treatment), but I pay strict attention to the temperature requirements and placement of the strips, as well as providing extra space during the initial application period. I have not found that there is any danger of queen loss when used as directed.

    I keep seeing these stories/rumors of queen loss, but it doesn't happen to me. Why is that? Am I just 'lucky'? Or is it more likely to be due to the fact that I am very, very careful with it?
    I too was very, very careful with it. Brand new box from the manufacturer, applied well within the temp range, label followed. If the product failed in some way, it was not by my action or inaction. Did the treatment kill the queen? I don't know. Correlation is not causation. My theory stems from the fact that I never see any sort of die off of adult bees when using MAQS. I find it very hard to believe that the product is any harder on one particular bee (the queen) than the thousands of others in the hive. But i do see some brood mortality. Perhaps the queens had some underlying issue I don't know about, and the sudden brood 'failure' as the hive saw it was enough to push them over the edge and supersede. I don't know. The hives in question superseded, one had to be combined, the other two recovered enough to overwinter and are still good hives today, which to me is just in a days work of beekeeping. I will still use the product. Perhaps you could send some of your 'luck' my way.

    From the product label: "Some brood mortality is to be expected early
    in the treatment, treatment may trigger supercedure of fragile queens."
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  9. #68
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    Feb 2016
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    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBeeKeeper View Post
    I keep seeing these stories/rumors of queen loss, but it doesn't happen to me. Why is that? Am I just 'lucky'? Or is it more likely to be due to the fact that I am very, very careful with it?
    I think there could be a lot of factors. You likely live in a very favorable climate for MAQS. In addition to heat, there seems to be a humidity concern for some treatments. There is suspicion that this humidity factor may be showing up in the the UGA/Auburn University trials of the OA shop towel extended release method. They are not getting the same results as Randy Oliver in Northern California. I simply can't use MAQS at all, at least not within the manufacturer's recommendations. Some beekeepers in my area will place a single MAQS application across the top bars between brood chambers for what they call a "knock down" treatment when they feel that they have to treat with honey supers on. But that gets varying results and they will sometimes gas their hives. I can use thymol, but only in 1/2 doses -- which is advised on Apiguard's website under the FAQS posted there. However, I have often had to cancel the second treatment due to spikes in temps.

    But from all I have read of MAQS issues with queen loss, I do think that it is MORE likely the combination of many of these external factors and differing environments that are causing negative results and far less likely that it has to do with your unique abilities to be careful.

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Croatia
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    92

    Default Re: OAV treatment in honey producing hive

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    there seems to be a humidity concern for some treatments.
    Just to mention, OAD has higher efficiency in higher humidity. What would be result if you apply OAD-s instead of OAV-s?
    Last edited by viesest; 04-19-2018 at 02:57 AM.

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