Single Box Hive - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46

Thread: Single Box Hive

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Decorah, Iowa USA
    Posts
    189

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Nancy- You just hit the nail on the head. There's more than one way to skin a cat!
    Thank you
    Jerry

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Sawyer County,WI USA
    Posts
    357

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    @maudbid,

    Actually the reason I send people to Wally Shaw's, The many uses of a Snelgrove board paper is that they get the essence of what that brochure says regarding using a Snelgrove board, but in a shorter form.

    Other parts of that brochure make me feel like I am on hallucinatory drugs, with its instruction to intentionally divide a box-spanning brood nest and arrange things in order to force the brood nest to expand downwards vs encouraging continual upward expansion. Those are two cardinal sins, in my experience.

    (Actually re-reading it today provides a salutary flashback to being a very new beekeeper and struggling to find reliable information. Instead I often found extremely conflicting information, which was bewildering. Since there is no universally correct, perfect way to keep bees, all recommendations should be couched in terms of what works for a specific beekeeper in a specific region. And then any individual beekeeper needs to simply decide which methods to try.)

    Nancy
    I had several cringe moments watching the vid.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Murphy, TX
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by drummerboy View Post
    Interesting discussion. Northern Beekeepers have been advised to winter their bees in a minimum of 2 deeps for a century or more.

    The U of Minn still advises as many as 3 deeps, along with a required/substantial amount of bees and honey to carry such a large colony through winter that can last 7 months or more.

    After considerable research going back well over 100 years, and the successfully implemented methods used by such well known beekeepers as Palmer, Webster, Seely etc. ;

    The emerging 'trend' for over-wintering in the North is slowly heading toward over-wintering smaller colonies, in smaller, fewer boxes. Colonies which apparently boom/thrive when/if they survive until Spring. Apparently, Even Bro Adam kept bees in NUC's during winter....so it's not a new thing, maybe just a return to an old way? The way Mike Palmer tells it, it was the industrial revolution/capitalism that was in part responsible for our current accepted method of keeping bees alive. The traditional, Bottom Board, DEEP brood box, followed by Mediums and shallows, all designed to create giant colonies, lots of honey and usually if all goes well, healthy winter survivors that can be split for increase.

    That was how it used to bee. That is what most of us were told/taught at some point during our venture into bees and beekeeping, regardless of whether one lived in California, NY, Montana or Florida.

    I guess that system worked just fine for quite a while and for a lot of beekeepers, at least until a combination of factors (from pesticides and pests to habitat loss and poor quality 'industrialized' bees), all began to negatively effect a number of species globally, not just honeybees. Its all been going on for a while now, for as long as everyone posting herein has been alive.

    We tried as best we could last year to keep some of our bee colonies as small as the equipment we had to use (one in a deep, 2 in mediums, separated with Q excl w/ just one medium honey super). Such small colonies DO require more attention, but I don't remember when we had such fun, keeping track of these little colonies, which despite our efforts, did swarm and did NOT survive the winter.

    But we also learned some cool things. Yeah even after messing with bees for 4 decades we still learn something (s) every season...and we are seriously committed to changing direction (only production colonies are allowed to get BIG from now on) for now and we'll see what we will see. It'll definitely be easier on this old man back of mine....and may very well result in keeping more colonies alive. Wish us luck, please.

    We're definitely gonna try again, having been inspired by Tom Seeley, (including Bro Adam) and all the rest, now speaking clearly about the reasons for over-wintering small colonies in single boxes or NUC's, along with the wisdom/logic (Some of it long forgotten) for doing so. We're relatively new to the internet, even bordering on tech-NO-peasantry.

    The manufacturers of beekeeping equipment may not like a reduction in sales (selling less stuff as beekeepers decide to house bees in smaller cavities) but IMO we and our bees may thrive again once we get out of their way.

    Thanks again for opening this topic.
    Speaking of smaller colonies, my colonies in 2x2 medium resource hives did a lot better than some of 1x2 regular medium colonies. And yes, folks in my zone "winter" with just one deep. I winter with 2 mediums. I am going to winter more 2x2 medium resource hives this year.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,283

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by deepster View Post
    Hi everyone
    I have been watching a Canadian bee keeper’s Blog on youtube. His videos are very interesting. It looks like he is doing a wonderful job running a commercial honey business on a single hive body. This is real appealing to me since it is lot easier to manage single hive box than multiple boxes, anyone has a firsthand experience with this technique?
    Thank you so much in advance DP
    Single Box Hives ? Dunno if this is what you had in mind - but - Long Hives and Horizontal Top Bar hives are usually run as single boxes.

    Fixed-volume vertical hives are rarer - I can only think of two examples offhand: the Sentry-Box Hive: http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/polish_style_hive.html and of course the very popular A-Z Hive. FWIW, I'm currently working on a third ...

    The vast majority of my hives (both horizontal and vertical) are run as single brood box hives - but then we always tend to do things on a smaller scale over on this side of the pond ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Single box arrangement might not work for many beekeepers, depending on our requirements. Go to the commercial Beekeeping Facebook page for an example. There are very large pollinating migratory beekeepers from both ends of the spectrum hashing our debate between singke and double strategy 🙂

    Point is, keep an open mind and don’t let “use to be” wisdom rule your decisions

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,421

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    If you chose (or must) winter in shed, you pretty much have to manage single bodies due to portability and the shed space requirements.
    In Russia, places similar to Ians and colder even, they routinely winter in sheds and use single deep Dadant/Lang boxes for that.
    Singles are industry standard in those conditions.

    In most of continental USA, i don't see this is to be required or even desired - wintering in sheds.
    So the idea of singles should be looked with this in mind.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    2,941

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Or you could....
    BAM!
    Kick it up a notch.
    P4070449.jpg

    P4070451.jpg

    P4070455.jpg

    Super jumbo deeps with uninterrupted long comb in the brood nest area.
    Technically, a single box, right?
    Just what you need, more ideas

    I've watched the European beekeepers for years with their jumbo deeps. Wanted to give it a shot.

    After several years of beekeeping, It was pretty obvious to me queens lay up deep frames better than mediums. I know, some will disagree, that's the way I see it here.
    My mind wanders occasionally to the Jumbo deeps the Europeans use, pretty extensively.
    If queens lay up a deep better than a medium, would she lay up a Jumbo deep even better? Possible overwinter better on a long comb as they would build more naturally?
    The uninterrupted Spiral pattern is what I am after, without interruption from spaces between frames.

    I made some top bars and trimmed standard bottom bars for the sides and bottom. Used my Hot glue gun to hold in foundation. Pneumatic Stapler of course to nail the frames together.


    I have built and tried several alternative hive types in the past. They are all fun to fool with and interesting, but I've yet to find a design that beats Langstroth for flat out reliable performance.

    Between the last few years of using queen excluders for queen rearing and watching Ian's video on single deep hive management, I have come to understand what a great tool those excluders can be. Not so much to keep the queen out of the honey super, but to keep the interior design of the hive exactly the way you want it, at any given time.
    Last edited by Lauri; 04-07-2018 at 04:59 PM.
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    2,941

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    HO!!

    Dang, don't show me stuff like this! They look huge but I the scale is hard to determine.
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Crown Point, NY, USA
    Posts
    562

    Default

    Wow. Those combs must be like 3 foot-ish. If I wanted to play i just might be tempted. But not in that position. Is a nifty give though.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,421

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    Or you could....
    BAM!
    Kick it up a notch.........
    Super jumbo deeps with uninterrupted long comb in the brood nest area.
    Technically, a single box, right?
    That's what some of use have been preaching here already...
    Reinventing an old, forgotten bicycle.
    DSCN2598_Small.jpg
    DSCN2472.jpg

    Still can additionally super in summer if so desired. Not a problem.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    York County, VA, USA
    Posts
    503

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Dar Jones (Fusion_Power) posted a very nice summary of hive designs, along with his summary of why he opted for the older Langstroth-adapted modified Dadant jumbo (11 5/8"?) frames in a square 12-frame box (14 at his narrower brood box separation). I wanted to test it with pretty much standard hardware bits, so made some long sidebars to fit a double-medium 10-frame brood box. The numbers as I recall are 12 7/8" frames in a 13 1/4" housing for my toys. The one colony I have with this geometry (I'm using medium supers on it) came flying out of winter and already has socked away some honey. I just have to figure out how to manage it....

    However, I took all the help I could from others who are adapting the jumbo frame colonies, square or not. They are a single brood box. The whole frames laid up with capped brood thing is pretty impressive. I can see how Roland's management practices give him whole laid-up frames, too. I'm hoping to compare these two styles, but I'll only be able to compare my mash-up of the management styles. I'm confident I'll not have either anywhere near optimally tweaked. Mine are double-medium with12 1/4" open area. I use two medium foundations with an open band across the middle, about an inch wide, which the bees fill in with their choice of cell size. These dimensions have been in use for years by others on BeeSource who have kindly provided me with their conclusions and practices.

    I still don't know what I'm doing, other than having a fascinating time. I'll be very interested in your experiences and what conclusions you draw. I expect to make two more reallydeepframe hives this spring. I'm trying to decide whether to make the brood boxes square or just live with the Langstroth rectangles. It appears trivial to use rectangular supers on the square boxes, and I'll probably try them 90 degrees rotated with respect to the brood frames. I can see how to adapt Roland's "hang up brood" practice on this by using 8 frames in two stacked medium supers, setting one or two of the double-medium frames through that stack. Rotate emptied comb back to the brood box and hang up capped brood to encourage bee travel up above a QE, if one is used. The queen should have absolutely no _need_ to go up to look for empty comb.

    Fun times.

    Michael
    "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." (heard often from the late David Sebree) Still making them, myself

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,283

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    That's what some of use have been preaching here already...
    Reinventing an old, forgotten bicycle.
    Still can additionally super in summer if so desired. Not a problem.
    Nice. Very nice.

    Lauri: Dang, don't show me stuff like this! They look huge but I the scale is hard to determine.
    Yes, I agree ...

    My first thought was that the 'Sentry Box' was just that - a human-sized Sentry Box - but looking at the cell sizes, and also the size of the gravel in the pathway, I'd guess the hive is what, maybe 3-4ft high ?

    I find this hive very impressive, considering it was built and run by guys who were prisoners, and would have had precious few tools and resources to draw from.

    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Hornbeak,Tn,USA
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Watch Devan Rawn on You tube. He uses 10 frame single brood boxes. Checks hives every 10 days and uses queen excluders below honey supers. I think he is up north and does this make a difference? I've over wintered single boxes no problem. I have been using double deeps and will try on a couple hives in my home yard. I check every 10 days anyway up to and during swarm season.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Management needs to be adjusted so there is no need to brood check every 10 days

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Hornbeak,Tn,USA
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    He seems to be very sucessful

  17. #36
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    228

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    do you mind expanding on what you mean by that briefly Ian? i have watched your video on single box management several times, are you saying that once you have equalized everything to 4 frames of brood and then added the medium for the queen to lay up into that you do not check for swarm cells after that point? maybe its just an economy of scale for you and you can afford to loose a few swarms in the hives that do start preparations as opposed to spending all the money on labor looking for swarm prep.

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Elmira, NY
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    The point for me is that I have not seen a reason to keep bees in more than one single 10 frame deep. I don't need more than one box to provide them stores through the winter, I have much better survival rates than anyone around here. I get 50-100 pounds of honey per hive, which is plenty for me, and more than others in the area. As far as my one challenge, swarm management, fellow beekeepers around here that I know have the same level of problems with swarming as I do. Although, I suspect those who claim they don't have swarming don't know they are losing swarms, since they are also the ones who rarely get into their hives.

    I think my survival rates are a result of more active management, monitoring and mite treatment, that is at a higher rate then others. One of the reasons I cut back from double deeps to singles is that I can get in and out of a single box hive much faster with less disturbance and upset bees. That meant I could do more monitoring. Of course, that was during my first year when I was more clumsy than I am now. I just see no reason to go back to doubles when singles work so well for me.

    Like I said, swarm management has been my one challenge. This thread has given me several new tools to try this year, I appreciate the help and advice.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Dade county, Mo.
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    I have come to understand what a great tool those excluders can be. Not so much to keep the queen out of the honey super, but to keep the interior design of the hive exactly the way you want it, at any given time.
    As a newbie it appears a challenge but this is the reason i want to start trying to manage a single with a q/e this year; to learn how to properly manage a compact broodnest.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,421

    Default Re: Single Box Hive



    You know, guys, if you'd just run a single-body hive using the good, old warm-way, (preferably large body, or long body - better yet), you never need a queen excluder and all that fancy "shtuff".
    Brood is always kept next to the entrance - end of story. Honey is away from the entrance - done.
    It is really that simple; most TBH keepers know this by heart.
    If you are a hobbyist/small scale, you can stop the gymnastics right here.

    PS: ok, if you are a commercial/big scale - that is different context and the game goes on.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Single Box Hive

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhaupt2 View Post
    do you mind expanding on what you mean by that briefly Ian? i have watched your video on single box management several times, are you saying that once you have equalized everything to 4 frames of brood and then added the medium for the queen to lay up into that you do not check for swarm cells after that point? maybe its just an economy of scale for you and you can afford to loose a few swarms in the hives that do start preparations as opposed to spending all the money on labor looking for swarm prep.
    The whole point to very much everything I do in regards to spring time management is focused around growth and swarm management. To be able to run an operation in scale, you will need to adopt practices which manipulate growth and regulate swarming without continual brood nest swarm cell inspection.
    Think about that for a bit, because everything stems around that objective.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •