oxalic acid
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  1. #1
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    Aug 2015
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    Goshen, NY, USA
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    Default oxalic acid

    I'm going to start using an OAV spring treatment.

    Do you guys just use wood bleach or do you buy the Oxalic Acid Dihydrate from the suppliers?

  2. #2
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    Jun 2013
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    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Savogran wood bleach is what I use.

    I always hesitate to write this, but do make sure that the product really is oxalic acid. It should say so on the label as the "active ingredient.". There's always a chance that Savogran starts marketing some new kind of wood bleach product that doesn't use OA.

    Nancy

  3. #3
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    Jan 2017
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    Edmonton, AB, Canada
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    I personally use oxalic acid purchased from a local bee supply company (picked up in person). Why? partially because I couldn't find wood bleach in my area (would have had to order online) and partially because, locally anyways, the oxalic acid from the bee store cost next to nothing and will last forever so I figured I may as well.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Oxalic acid from bee stores here in the US costs a great deal more than from chemical stores or wood bleach.

    NAncy

  5. #5
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    Oxalic acid from bee stores here in the US costs a great deal more than from chemical stores or wood bleach.

    NAncy
    I just let my wife order it on line it's higher quality and cheep

  6. #6
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    Jan 2016
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    Ozark, AL
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan the bee guy View Post
    I just let my wife order it on line it's higher quality and cheep
    Cheaper, maybe. Higher quality, well you will have to post the list of ingredients to make your point. I have yet to see any different products from several place to purchase.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    Campbell River, BC, CA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    Oxalic acid from bee stores here in the US costs a great deal more than from chemical stores or wood bleach.
    I just looked up prices here. I can get a 12oz wood bleach container for 12 bucks. Google tells me that 12oz works out to 340 grams. I can get a 1kg tub of OA (1000 grams) from the bee supply store for 15 bucks.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2016
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    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    The only bee supply store that I am aware of that sells properly labeled OA for US use is Brushy Mountain. Maybe others have joined in now, but initially it was Brushy only and a lot of US Beekeepers felt a good deal of loyalty to Brushy because they went through great expense and effort to get the label approved through the EPA. The problem is that they sell it for around $0.20 a gram, while we can buy Savagran for $0.04 a gram. I now buy the Savagran, but I feel a little conflicted about it. I could care less that I am not using properly labeled product. But I do think we (US Beekeepers) owe Brushy some loyalty points for what they did. I try to buy from Brushy when all prices are virtually the same. I ordered an Ulster Hive from them last year.

  9. #9
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    Oct 2016
    Location
    Aroostook, ME, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Cost for me to get to the nearest 'local bee supply store' is about $70 in gas and a day's drive. I order mine online and usually it's cheaper to buy from Amazon with free shipping.

  10. #10
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    Mar 2018
    Location
    Lambertville NJ, USA
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    6

    Default

    I trusted what I was getting from Mann Lake would be the correct product. On the invoice it is listed as OA/Wood Bleach, $10 for 1lb.

  11. #11
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Brushy Mountain is currently the only US distributor* of EPA 'labeled and approved' oxalic acid for use as a varroa pesticide. By Federal law, pesticides may only be sold and used out of a container that is labeled with a complete use and dosage label that references the correct usage of that pesticide to control the target pest.

    In addition to Brushy Mountain selling that EPA labeled product directly, their dealers also sell the Brushy Mountain EPA labeled oxalic acid (OA). Also, Brushy Mountain wholesales its EPA labeled OA to some of its competitors in the bee business. For instance, Dadant sells Brushy Mtn EPA labeled OA.

    However, what Mann Lake is selling is not labeled as a pesticide, and not legal to use as a varroa control. But that does not seem to stop Mann Lake from selling oxalic acid labeled as wood bleach.


    *(in this sense, "distributor" is meant as "manufacturer", although Brushy does not actually own a manufacturing plant producing oxalic acid.)
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  12. #12
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    Dec 2017
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    Lincoln, NE, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuberboy View Post
    I trusted what I was getting from Mann Lake would be the correct product. On the invoice it is listed as OA/Wood Bleach, $10 for 1lb.
    It will work just fine. They market it to be used as a wood bleach to stay within the rules. If the beek uses it as a treatment, it's on the beek.

  13. #13
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    Jan 2014
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    Brazoria County, Texas
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/UK-Oxalic-A...item3d26665427

    Try these. You'll toss the powder.

  14. #14
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    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Monarch View Post
    It will work just fine. They market it to be used as a wood bleach to stay within the rules. If the beek uses it as a treatment, it's on the beek.
    Do any of you really believe the EPA boogie man is going to spy on you so he can fine you thousands of dollars because of you using OA that doesnt have Brushy Mountain's lable on it.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2011
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    Chicago, ILL. USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1d View Post
    Do any of you really believe the EPA boogie man is going to spy on you so he can fine you thousands of dollars because of you using OA that doesnt have Brushy Mountain's lable on it.
    No.
    But is that the point? If I use something off label, why can't my neighbor spray their lawn twice a day?

  16. #16
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    Apr 2011
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    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcin View Post
    No.
    But is that the point? If I use something off label, why can't my neighbor spray their lawn twice a day?
    What does your neighbor spraying his yard have to do with you using OA on your bees?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Note that in addition to required Federal EPA approval & registration of all pesticides, individual states also must complete registration of those pesticides as well. If state approval/registration of a specific pesticide has not been completed, then it doesn't matter if Federal approval has been granted or not, and that pesticide use is prohibited under State law.

    For many months after US EPA approval of oxalic acid was granted, Brushy Mtn maintained a web page showing the status of the various state approvals. State approval was not quick, or automatic, and not free of cost either.

    While I don't see that page currently on the Brushy site, the oxalic acid product page does clearly state that OA cannot be shipped to California. A reasonable conclusion is that use of oxalic acid as a varroacide in California is not legal under state law as it has not been granted California registration.

    The individual state approval process also means that individual state agencies can can take action against those who violate state pesticide application rules. Keep in mind that if it doesn't come out of a properly labeled container, its not legal.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #18
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    Apr 2011
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    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    It wasnt legal in the US and beekeepers started using it to kill the mites.No one was fined and people kept buying it and using it till EPA gave their approval.

  19. #19
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    Oct 2015
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    Butler Co, Missouri, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1d View Post
    Do any of you really believe the EPA boogie man is going to spy on you so he can fine you thousands of dollars because of you using OA that doesnt have Brushy Mountain's lable on it.
    It can happen. Missouri dept of ag officials Are known to pull over a sprayer going between fields and ask to see a list of what's in the tank. One year they were watching for a tell-tale reaction of rice to see if a certain herbicide was applied (was made legal later that year). They were ready to fine producers, even though the research had already been done and released. Nothing is legal till it gets that EPA and state label.

    All it takes is for said official to be curious and see you treating hives for him to check your "pesticide application".

    Dealing with this crap everyday is one of the reasons the farmers that so many bee keepers love to hate on are often in a bad mood.
    Hindsight is 20/10, not 20/20...
    After the fact, I always know what didn't work.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: oxalic acid

    Here is a topical story ...

    Amazon, EPA reach $1.2 million settlement over online sales of illegal pesticides

    A snippet from that article ...
    EPA said investigation into the illegal products started with summer interns in the national office, searching the internet for unregistered pesticides offered by online retailers. Because of the enormous shift from brick-and-mortar retailers to online commerce, “This is a very difficult avenue of pesticides sales to get our hands around,” Schulze said. Asked how much illegal pesticide product he believes is still out there, he answered “a lot.”

    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...al-pesticides/
    Hmmm .... summer interns looking to make a name for themselves, and get a leg up on a full-time job offer? You never know how you might come to the attention of 'the man'.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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