My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :) - Page 8
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  1. #141
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Actually I found it entertaining. Not knocking the concept of someone wanting to become a commercial beekeeper, its just that.......well, the thread title says it all.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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  3. #142
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Jim, I agree that the thread is entertaining, but John is right, it belongs in the beekeeping 101 sub forum. Perhaps Rader or Squarepeg could move it to the appropriate location? What I find absolutely hilarious is that another beekeeper is asking Scooby for advice.

    I suspect however, that the question was more of a poke at Scooby's very aggressive plans for expansion rather than a legitimate request for advice.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #143
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    drakesville, iowa
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Jim, I agree that the thread is entertaining, but John is right, it belongs in the beekeeping 101 sub forum. Perhaps Rader or Squarepeg could move it to the appropriate location? What I find absolutely hilarious is that another beekeeper is asking Scooby for advice.

    I suspect however, that the question was more of a poke at Scooby's very aggressive plans for expansion rather than a legitimate request for advice.
    In all honesty, it was a slight poke at his aggressive plans for expansion, but if he was successful to some degree I am open minded enough to listen to his methods. I do have a goal of 50 hives though by the fall of 2020.

    I do not think that I will ever know more than I don't know about bees.

  5. #144
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    I just find it amusing to arbitrarily pick out a nice round number like 10,000 as if there is some significance to it. I've run 5,000 hives for decades, its a doable number to operate and oversee with some good help. I've had many opportunities to expand and have decided against it for a number of reasons. The main ones are I'm making a good living right now and I'm pretty sure that having twice as many hives wouldn't make me a happier person. Heck, I know a guy making a living off of under 1,000. He pays his bills and he enjoys life more than me. If I'm jealous of anyone, its of the guy running 1,000 and not the guy running 10,000.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #145
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    Cool Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Well said Jim.
    I run around 1000 hives, it might be 1007.5 hives and raised 8 kids from that operation. Really enjoy what I do for a living.
    I think when you get to big, your more of a manager then a beekeeper. I see those operations that run 40-50K hives and wonder how you can manager that many hives. It takes some great beekeepers and a lot of labors.

    Money isn't everything. You have to have the time to enjoy life. I'm getting my fishing poles loaded in the truck today. Dad and the boys are going salmon fishing for the week.

  7. #146

    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Salmon fishing. I used to fly up to Alaska every year and catch Silvers on the fly. Now the only bugs I got time for are the bees. I envy you the trip with your boys. Hope you have a great week with lots of fish.

  8. #147
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Honey Householder View Post
    Well said Jim.
    I run around 1000 hives, it might be 1007.5 hives and raised 8 kids from that operation. Really enjoy what I do for a living.
    I think when you get to big, your more of a manager then a beekeeper. I see those operations that run 40-50K hives and wonder how you can manager that many hives. It takes some great beekeepers and a lot of labors.

    Money isn't everything. You have to have the time to enjoy life. I'm getting my fishing poles loaded in the truck today. Dad and the boys are going salmon fishing for the week.
    Now I'm really jealous.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #148
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    No one talks about economy of scale. Not pollinating, and with one shop, as the numbers get past 2,000 hives, the mileage costs start to increase. You can only put so many hives within economical driving range of the shop.

    Has Mr. Lyon has alluded to this in his post?

    Crazy Roland

  10. #149
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    I have not gone fishing or played golf for 30 years.
    I have 5 motorcycles in the garage that have not been started in 5 years.
    Other than that, I do find time to cut firewood and put in a large vegetable garden every year.
    Bees take over your life.
    You've got to love it or........
    I have exactly ONE more hive than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  11. #150
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Like Harry I worked and built my business over many years. Started in 1992 and built to adequate Beekeeping proficiency in 1996 running 50 hives. In 1998 I started the NYC Markets and for the next twelve years I literally worked 2 full time jobs. At 59, my youngest son is my full time partner, We love what we do and, at 27 he owns his house and cars completely debt free and his future is solid. beekeeping is a farming, farming is not an easy career, it is a career for people who love being out in nature and are willing to work harder than they ever thought they could in all weather, economical, and industry conditions. Many days are working among the bees in beautiful summer blue sky’s and not a moment of it feels like work, other days are loading bees onto trailers in the dark, in the rain, getting stung so many times you would have never imagined it as hobbyist and then hitting the road hot and sweaty at 2 a.m and driving for 16 hours only to unload for a couple hours on the other end. A successful beekeeping business, like any, is about good planning, determination and a drive to “own your days. If that’s you then go for it....I walked out of 60K a year job with full benefits in 2010 that I loved to do this and I have never looked back and if you believe in yourself and are willing to work hard so can you.

  12. #151
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    I’ve been watch this read with an interest. I’m trying to build up a little slower then jumping right to 1,000 it one year. My goal was to increase to 20 but end up with about 50 going it to winter. At what point does it go for hobby to sideline to commercial?

  13. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncorm View Post
    I’ve been watch this read with an interest. I’m trying to build up a little slower then jumping right to 1,000 it one year. My goal was to increase to 20 but end up with about 50 going it to winter. At what point does it go for hobby to sideline to commercial?
    I believe there is a huge gap between hobby beekeeping and commercial. I see it as 0-50 hives is hobby territory. 50-750 is alot of work but not enough to replace your full time job. 750+ commercial beekeeping with enough earning potential to support bees and your family.

    After my initial purchase of 148 hives turned to 20 by winter, I've been increasing and at 520ish at the moment. Wouldn't have been possible without me making a good amount of money from my full time job. Took many days off and worked weekends, weekday evenings on bees this year and still didn't have enough time to take care of all my hives.
    Had 310 this spring for almonds. Spent almost all the money I got from almonds to expand to 600(bought enough boxes, frames, and pallets for 600 hives). Didn't have the time to assemble and paint boxes and take care of the bees and full time job.
    Could've been at about 700 right now if I had time to split and half of them didn't swarm. Don't know what I'm going to do next spring with 500 hives and not being able to leave my job just yet.

  14. #153
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    The economics would suggest that you hire and train some high school students to assist you. What would those additional 200 hives had paid in almonds this year?

    Playing devil's advocate, I would disagree that the distinctions are so large between commercial and hobby, but would agree that there are distict levels of commercial. At my current count of 16, no question I am at the hobby level. But next year will see me producing nucs for sale and expanding into an outyard with around 50 hives. The year after, I hope to get a few veggie pollination contracts. That to me is commercial, but on a micro scale.
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 10-14-2018 at 09:13 AM.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  15. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    The economics would suggest that you hire and train some high school students to assist you. What would those additional 200 hives had paid in almonds this year?

    Playing devil's advocate, I would disagree that the distinctions are so large between commercial and hobby, but would agree that there are distict levels of commercial. At my current count of 16, no question I am at the hobby level. But next year will see me producing nucs for sale and expanding into an outyard with around 50 hives. The year after, I hope to get a few veggie pollination contracts. That to me is commercial, but on a micro scale.
    200 hives is $35000 at the prices I was payed last year for just almond pollination alone.
    Finding workers for beekeeping isn't as easy as paying some high-school students. The workers are needed most in the spring when school is in session. They know nothing about bees and most don't want to learn. If I still have my full time job then I can't teach any workers unless they only want to work evenings and weekends(nobody wants to do that). I've had enough bs with workers and L&I that I don't want any workers. That's why my end goal is 800-1000. I would be able to take care of them myself full time.

    At waahington employee fees and prices to have a full time yearly worker I would need atleast 1500 hives(1000 hives to provide for family and bee costs + 500 hives to provide for employee+washington employee fees and costs).
    Last edited by R055; 10-14-2018 at 10:42 AM.

  16. #155
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    No one talks about economy of scale. Not pollinating, and with one shop, as the numbers get past 2,000 hives, the mileage costs start to increase. You can only put so many hives within economical driving range of the shop.

    Has Mr. Lyon has alluded to this in his post?

    Crazy Roland
    This is certainly the case for some. We are fortunate to be fairly centrally located and can reach any location in less than an hour, so its more a decision of what size of truck is most efficient on a given day. I would say almost without exception that operations of 10,000+ do a lot of bee moving to locations far from their main extracting plant through the course of the year and almost all of them are heavily reliant on foreign workers.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #156
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Thank you Jim. That is a point that is seldom considered when expansion is discussed.

    The rule of thumb for many years was 45 minutes to the beeyard, no more, and then there had to be a day's worth in that area.

    Crazy Roland

  18. #157
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    I have not gone fishing or played golf for 30 years.
    I have 5 motorcycles in the garage that have not been started in 5 years.
    Other than that, I do find time to cut firewood and put in a large vegetable garden every year.
    Bees take over your life.
    You've got to love it or........
    Thankfully I never got the Motorcycles...the rest is spot on! There are so many days it is the hardest work one can do and yet if you love it many of those are the best ones! At 59 and 25 years in I still can't wait for the next bend in the road.

  19. #158
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    Default

    OP, can you post an update?

  20. #159
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    According to his profile he hasn't been active on Beesource since September. One can only guess.......
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  21. #160
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    Default Re: My first two hives of 10,000 have been ordered :)

    "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley" ........

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