trouble with a swarm - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Atlanta Ga
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    Thanks Nancy. I was not meaning to imply there was silver bullet but quite the opposite according to honeybeehealthcoalition information. It would seem that there are different recommended treatments for different population levels. I did think the essential oils formulations were attractive, i guess because of stuff like honey bee health, and the prominence of using them to attract swarms. stands to reason though that if essential oils are poisonous to humans they could have negative effects on other life. Anything in the inappropriate amount is toxic. Oxygen, water(another chemical). Its easy to discount water as a chemical since it is so common and essential, but i guess that's the boat i put myself into, to choose the least toxic measure. The honey bee health coalition more or less recommended OA only twice a year, and other treatments were in higher favor at other time, nectar flow and brooding...I didn't absorb it all yet. I need more study and more input to decide the way that will work best for me. I have taken to heart there needs to be a tiered effort to keep the mites under control. The attractive thing about the mineral oil as it was sold to me, it is made to appear a one size fits all solution that has few negatives and few restrictions on use. I am being schooled now, and appreciate the time everyone has taken to guide me towards a better way to keep bees. I kind of thought from the popularity of the OA in this post that it would be a treatment that could be used with impunity. Is OA your preferred method Nancy? Do you use preemptive measures, or react to the problems when you KNOW they are present?

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Red Bud, IL, USA
    Posts
    1,809

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    I believe the Honey Bee health Coalition recommendation of two OA treatments a year is for the dribble method, OA vaporization uses a series of treatments. OAV is my primary weapon for mites and I use 4 treatments, 5 days apart but I only treat when the mite load warrants it. Which means constant monitoring including after treatments, I prefer the sugar shake. To verify if your sugar shake methods are providing an accurate count, leave the bees in the jar after your sugar shake and conduct an alcohol wash. If you want a "sugar shake lid" (mason jar ring with #8 hardware cloth soldered in) PM me a mailing address and I'll send you one.

    I had faith if we did a slow simmer and stirred the pot slightly we'd get more input.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Atlanta Ga
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    To update. The donor hive doesn't look good, I opened it to decide if I was gonna break it down, but I saw a queen. She was black with gold highlights, and not much workers with her. She flew somewhere I didn't see, down into the box I thought. I checked again tonight and didn't see a queen. I did see what looks like wet brood to me. In one cell I saw a larva of some kind. Not sure if it was a bee or hive beetle though. I saw some hive beetles on this mostly uninhabited hive. (Bees) I got two packages over the weekend and hope some of those bees might have migrated to her to help...but it seems a long shot. I did determine a method for OA distribution. Though i haven't seen any positive mention on bee source. I dissolved the OA, 25 gram in 100 ml of water and used the fogger. I am going to get a vaporizer I think but this other method is shown at a few bee yards on you tube. I had problems with the alcohol mixture in the fogger. Plus I saw someone on beesource mention how alcohol kills bees in a mite shake. I believe that alcohol would catalize going through the fogger because the coils are red hot. But the point is moot. The alcohol mixture seems the dissolve the pickup on the fogger. In short order, it wouldn't pass though and also got milky in appearance. The water solution on the other hand passed through the fogger fine. The acid will condense though when cooled. dont know how much remains suspended in the H20, but i would guess, 50 % by appearance. I could smell fumes both times through the respirator, with water and alcohol, so I believe it worked to some degree. Since I can't do a mite check on the dead hive ill just do one on the other hive I have that made it through the winter and check the packages when they settle in.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    2,040

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    Though i haven't seen any positive mention on bee source
    there are good reasons for that, 12+ years of people people talking about it on BS, in general most had poor results

    I could smell fumes both times through the respirator
    that suggests it was not a proper respirator

    Do a long proven OAD treatment, its simple, cheap, fast and effective
    The internet is instant, and the internet is often wrong-Kim Flottum

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Monkton, MD
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Stop using YouTube, please. There are too many novices and dangerous suggestions out there. I am worried for YOUR health and your bees.

    25mg oxalic acid crystals to 100ml of water is TOO strong. (Maybe you meant 1000ml or 1 liter?) Look on scientificbeekeeping.com or honeybeesuite.com for instructions on how to do an oxalic acid dribble properly. Those are both scientifically-based and well-respected.

    If you don’t have a proper oxalic acid vaporizer, then use the dribble method. The dribble method doesn’t involve heat or vapors, so there shouldn’t be anything to inhale.

    If at all possible, please find a beekeeping club or friend to help you. I’d hate for you to get seriously injured by what should be a fun hobby.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Atlanta Ga
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    10-4. Busters bees is my local resource for supplies and they wanted about 150 for a vaporizer. That would be good if its one of the good durable ones but I didnt have a way to know that information. The internet sells them for as little as 40$ so there is a lot of variance on cost, and not much for me to know their quality, but I did have the fogger already so it seemed a viable alternative after seeing some dude with 300 hives, I figured it would be OK. I will figure out the dribble method until I can get a vaporizer now. Maybe I will get that 150$ one, not sure what to do. I will go on honeybeesuite and check on how to dribble. Thanks for the information. It is still a fun hobby for me even though I feel rushed to figure out this new chapter for me I will be more patient

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    2,040

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    sold by a good member here
    $85
    https://oxavap.com/product/varrovap-...cid-vaporizer/

    for 4 doses OAD its
    120g sugar
    120g water
    7g OA
    Get your self a cheap harbor freight gram scale for $10
    You could mix singe doses at 20,20, 1.75 as needed, but with larger batches the margin of error is better....
    Ie being off 1/4 of a gram of OA at a single batch is almost 15% off, a 1/4 gram off in a 8 dose batch is only 1.8% off it not like its costly if some goes to waste, better to get it right in my book

    Rusty's site is fine, but go to the source, http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxal...-presentation/
    don't mess with the garden sprayer, the syringe is plenty fast and easy for the little guy
    The internet is instant, and the internet is often wrong-Kim Flottum

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Atlanta Ga
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    Hey everyone thanks again for taking time to read through all this stuff. I seek some more advice and enclose some pics. Pictures of brood were requested when I began this post and I didnt get it done. I went back into the hive the swarm came out of and saw a queen the first time, and not much at all the second, but I did see what looks like wet brood. I know I am not the first person to make this observation, but a few years back i took pics of some brood comb and saw what very much seems to me, eyes reflecting the flash. In one of the pics the reflections were directly imposed on a clearly visible triangle head, sticking out of the cell. In others where they were still in CX formation, the eyes appeared to me, to be side view. SO on the comb from the nearly vacant hive I see these reflections. I am apparently not versed enough in bee lore to just access the larval developement without aid of magnification or camera enhancement, plus I dont use the black plastic board. But all that said, what should I do with this comb that seems to have brood looking back at me. Last night it got down to 40 and there isnt enough bees to warm this hive so I suspect anything that was alive would have died. On the other hand I have rescued bees from cold water and warmed them up to where they were revived from stasis. Should I just leave this comb in the weakened hive and see what happens? If the queen is still there but hiding from me, will she and a handful of workers be enough to recoup this weakened state they are in? Can brood survive being chilled for a short period? The first picture is a few years back with mostly dual reflected eyes. The second in the hive in question (with no workers) and the last pic is my contraption to capture a swarm. I brazed a few coat hangers together and made a rig to hold a few frame of comb to draw the swarm in, it took over 24 hours for them to move appr 12 inchesForest Park-Morrow-20150820-04516.jpg20180403180353(1).jpg20180319154410.jpg

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,249

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    I didnt see any larvae in those pictures. The bright spots are not "eyes". Bee larvae look lile maggots until they are capped.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Yakima Co, WA, USA
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: trouble with a swarm

    I found this article really helpful, too, with several pictures. I realized what I have been seeing is mite losses, for sure.

    https://beeinformed.org/2016/03/08/w...oney-bees-die/

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