Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

Rigid Foam Chewing

3K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  burns375 
#1 ·
Bronco was talking about this. Here's a pic of foam inner covers I left on for a year. The chewed up ones are directly over the top bars. The ones with little damage were over a regular inner cover as insulation

On one, I cut a thin channel for ventilation during winter. They decided to bore it out a bit.

Food Dish Cuisine Dessert Beer bread
Food Dish Cuisine Baked goods Countertop
Food Cuisine Dish Dessert Tile
Table Furniture Marble Dessert
 
See less See more
5
#2 ·
When I had foam over the inter cover for one winter, the bees left it alone. I have never tried it, but I heard if you wrap it in suran wrap, the bees will leave it alone. I think enjambers puts the aluminum type tape over her foam that bees can get to.
Good pictures, and good luck.
gww
 
#4 ·
Bronco was talking about this. Here's a pic of foam inner covers I left on for a year. The chewed up ones are directly over the top bars. The ones with little damage were over a regular inner cover as insulation

On one, I cut a thin channel for ventilation during winter. They decided to bore it out a bit.

View attachment 38325 View attachment 38327 View attachment 38329 View attachment 38331 View attachment 38333
This is the easiest problem in the world to solve. Paint it and they won't chew it.
 
#5 ·
I have no experience with Saran Wrap, and would be reluctant to put it in the hive on anything more than a very temporary basis. Aluminum foil would be better, I think. Aluminum HVAC tape (not "duct tape") works perfectly, though it is pricey.

Painting also appears to work, but you must paint both sides simultaneously otherwise the panels warp.

My bees nibble on XPS foam a good deal. Back when I started using it a fair amount in my hives I spoke with some manufacturers about its content and was told that in some areas of the country XPS foam may have borax added to it to discourage termite damage. The material is, after all, intended for subsurface installation where the termites might have at it.

Borax is very toxic to bees.

I know of no way to determine from the product code whether a sheet has borax in it or not. And most brands have recently been reformulated to lower the greenhouse gas component during manufacturing, so there could have been a change, too.

I am pretty sure my bees are not eating it, they are just doing a little remodeling of their world according to their own ideas.

Nancy
 
#10 ·
Painting also appears to work, but you must paint both sides simultaneously otherwise the panels warp.



Nancy
Absolutely not true. All I use are polystyrene hives and I paint eps and xps all the time. You do not have to paint both sides simultaneously.

I don't understand why people are so resistant to painting polystyrene. It is cheap, quick, and prevents bees from chewing. Although chewing the polystyrene may not be directly harmful to the bees it sure is a big waste of energy. Why have them doing something that is a waste of energy and harmful to your insulation at best. But what the hey. As the OP says maybe chewing is good for them because the most aggressive chewers are surviving the best! Or maybe the strongest survivors are the ones with enough energy to do the most chewing? Duh!
 
#7 · (Edited)
I probably should have prefaced the post with....In my case I ran out of wood inner covers and used what I had lying around. I knew theyde chew into the boards and wasn't overly concerned with some damage. The foam panels cost like $2 per hive and are easy to make. They work well as short term migratory covers and bottom boards also.

The insect resistant foam is treated with calcium borax and is usually listed in the product guide from the manufacturer..weather it's eps or xps. It is also more costly. The foam I used didn't have borax. I'm happy to report the hives with the most agressive chewing are currently alive today and we're doing exceptionally well last year when chewing was active.
 
#8 ·
Burns,

That's good to know. Since I often suggest people use XPS to make follower boards, can you tell how the treated stuff is marked so I can steer them clear of problems. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that up here in NY, not that we don't ever have termites, but they are not a big issue like they are in the South.

Nancy
 
#13 · (Edited)
Burns,can you tell how the treated stuff is marked so I can steer them clear of problems. Nancy
I revised my post above with more specific language, I see how it's misleading. You are right there is not a 100% marking requirement, nor will borate be on SDS. The manufacturers will typical have language on their websites product guide, anything marketed as Bora or insect resistant should be avoided. I am pretty confident the regular 1" x4x8 extruded sheets from Owens Corning are not treated. Foamular XPS brand at big box stores
 
#12 ·
I paint flat panels all the time. Both eps and xps. Never warp because of paint. They do warp if weight is applied to them over a period of time like at the big box store I find panels that have become deformed due to weight load on them. Scientifically it makes no sense that paint on one surface would cause deformation. Wood can warp with paint applied to one surface because it absorbs moisture. Polystyrene does not absorb moisture. But thanks for your brilliant observation.
 
#17 ·
Polystyrene does not absorb moisture. But thanks for your brilliant observation.
Well, here is an EPS industry website FAQ that points out that EPS (encapsulated polystyrene) is NOT waterproof ...
Q: Can EPS act as a vapor barrier?
A: No, although EPS has a low water vapor transmission rate, [HIGHLIGHT]EPS is not a vapor barrier. Rather it "breathes", and therefore does not require costly venting as do other insulation materials, which would otherwise trap moisture [/HIGHLIGHT] within walls and roof assemblies.

http://www.epsindustry.org/building-construction/moisture-resistance
Since EPS "breathes" (as per above), surely painting just one side can have an different effect on water vapor transmission compared to painting both sides, just as enjambres originally pointed out. :)

Paint, while not an absolute moisture barrier, certainly impedes the transmission of moisture - that is one of the key reasons for painting in the first place. :p
 
#19 ·
Well, here is an EPS industry website FAQ that points out that EPS (encapsulated polystyrene) is NOT waterproof ...


Since EPS "breathes" (as per above), surely painting just one side can have an different effect on water vapor transmission compared to painting both sides, just as enjambres originally pointed out. :)

Paint, while not an absolute moisture barrier, certainly impedes the transmission of moisture - that is one of the key reasons for painting in the first place. :p
Its not encapsulated polystyrene it is expanded polystyrene. So I guess it didn't work out to make drinking cups out of it for decades? You know because it absorbed the coffee and soft drinks you put in them. Geeeez.
 
#15 ·
Ide also like to note that the heavily chewed boards used directly as inner cover replacment were eventually coated in Propolis during summer dearth when heavy propolizing occurs. As if the bees we're happy with the material removal and stopped to seal it in. The heaviest chewing occured during the flow when hives we're at their peak. Usually it's only the big strong hives who aggressively chew. I'm thinking if I left the board on more than a year the chewing may have slowed or stopped the following year since it was propolised.

Based on the experiment I think there is few reasons for chewing. 1 is they want to make an entrance or improvement ventilation. I had 2 hives make an entrance and several who expanded a ventilation tunnel. They kept it gaurded and did not enlarge further. 1 hive entually closed the entrance. 2 looking for expansion. 3 insect protection, perhaps foam mimics bunk wood, like rot wood in a tree where beetles and other critters could hide. Naturally they want to avoid material for a harder substrate and propolize for protection. I think number 3 is potentially strong mode.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I think certain types of foam can become waterlogged. Perhaps an old problem they've sorted out. When I was researching to build my garage, I remember reading something about incorrect application of foundation or slab insulation. The foam absorbed moisture from the ground loosing it's r-value. And then could also freeze destroying the foam. Something to do with open cell vs closed cell, how the grains of polystyrene we're formed and expanded and if the foam was faced or sealed with another material.

I don't think my Owens Corning foam boards were absorbing moisture or letting a large amount of moisture pass thru. If they did it wasn't a significant amount. I used a few foam boards as migratory covers so they definitely got wet.

I also made a foam box for overwintering a dcoats style nuc box inside. The nuc survived and did well the next year. I stopped using the foam box though. Since other nucs wintered ok without it and was more work to setup and maintain each winter.
 
#21 ·
The 1" blue Dow brand Styrofoam that I have used has a thin plastic film applied to both sides of the outer faces. It will peel right off. I have not noticed it on the Owen Corning pinkish foam.

I use foam tops on my hive but put the foam in a simple wood frame. 1/4" plywood on the bottom close to the bees with a 2" thick pieces of foam on top. 3/4" thick wood around the sides. They have a vent hold with screen like a normal inner cover. Bees can't get to the foam. Basically it is a thick inner cover.
 
#22 ·
The 1" blue Dow brand Styrofoam that I have used has a thin plastic film applied to both sides of the outer faces. It will peel right off. I have not noticed it on the Owen Corning pinkish foam.
Yes that's right. The Lowe's brand made by DOW has a superthin piece of plastic. I think when I was cutting sheets on the table saw it started to peel away and I ripped it off. The foamular by Owens didnt have that.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top