Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Onslow County, North Carolina, USA
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    Default Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    I have both pigs and bees in my back yard. Not a lot of pigs (just 3). I raise the pigs for meat and decided to de-worm them last week. I use the Wazine-17 de-wormer in the pig's water as directed. I checked my 2 hives on Saturday and both were dead. I know that the bees drink from the pigs water since it's closer than the pond. Could this have killed my hives?

    Thanks,
    Chris

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Turnbow Hollow, Tennessee
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    No way to tell for sure without a lab test. In my opinion, I doubt the wormer had little if anything to do with it. Late Winter/Early Spring is the time many hives fail. This is usually due in part if not entirely to varroa mites. I am presuming both of your hives had adequate honey/syrup store or some high carbohydrate feed. Take a close look at the brood comb and comb around the dead bee cluster. Are the bees facing in to the comb dead? (strong indication of starvation followed by freezing to death) Is there a very fine extremely small flake material all over an inside the brood and other comb cells? If so, this very well could be varroa mite poop, a strong indication that mites overwhelmed the hive. Did you treat these hives for varroa mites last Fall with a KNOWN valid treatment that has been scientifically proven to work such as Apivar, Oxalic Acid vapor, MAQS/Formic Pro, etc.? In most cases, if the bees were poisoned by a pesticide of some sort, there would be a significant pile of them in front of the hive dead. Just some things to consider and review to help you back track what may have happened.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
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    4,646

    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    What is the active ingredient in the de-wormer, might research it and see how toxic it is to bees.

    If I were to guess I would think that the bees are not drinking enough water to have a hive killing dose. pesticide poisoning often has a set of symptoms. Dead crawlers, twitching some on there back, piles of dead inside and outside of the hive.

    Starvation is very common this time of the year; no honey stores, heads in the cells.

    If you did not treat for mites it's likely the cause. Disease is also a possibility.

    How much brood did they have what does the pattern look like, got pictures?

  5. #4
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    Apr 2011
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    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    I use Wazine for my chickens and bees drink their water and I have had no bad effect on bees here.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    We are trying to practice "treatment free" beekeeping. Therefore we do not chemically treat for varroa, but I do keep a sharp eye out for any signs of infestation. Up til last week, they were happy, buzzing, and visiting the budding pear trees as they do each year. We had put out some bee fondant for them this winter. There was still about half of the fondant left. I'll check for signs of starvation when I get home...If I can see through all the ants that are feasting on the carnage.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    I'll take pics when I get home.

  8. #7
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    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestix View Post
    We are trying to practice "treatment free" beekeeping. Therefore we do not chemically treat for varroa, but I do keep a sharp eye out for any signs of infestation. Up til last week, they were happy, buzzing, and visiting the budding pear trees as they do each year. We had put out some bee fondant for them this winter. There was still about half of the fondant left. I'll check for signs of starvation when I get home...If I can see through all the ants that are feasting on the carnage.
    Unless you are doing a sugar roll or alcohol wash, you are not really keeping a sharp eye out for mites. You might see the results of a virus they got from them, but not for the mites themselves. I am curious why you treat your pigs for parasites, but not your bees. Not insulting your judgment, just trying to understand your logic/reasoning. Like has been said, you need a lab to determine if they were poisoned, but it does sound doubtful at this point. J

  9. #8
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    Apr 2017
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    If the bees made it through winter, I don't see how mites would kill them now. They have been flying and brooding in eastern North Carolina for at least a month or better. Could have been starvation during a cold snap. Not enough nectar in Richmond quite yet so the girls are hitting the syrup hard still. Fondant may have been too hard or too far away if they were trying to cover brood. Really need the pics to even make a good guess. Have they started spraying the fields yet where you are?

    I have been unable to find any hard statements that piperazine (Wazine) is lethal to bees, you should probably be looking for another cause for the hives dying.
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 03-19-2018 at 06:40 PM.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Onslow County, North Carolina, USA
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fivej View Post
    Unless you are doing a sugar roll or alcohol wash, you are not really keeping a sharp eye out for mites. You might see the results of a virus they got from them, but not for the mites themselves. I am curious why you treat your pigs for parasites, but not your bees. Not insulting your judgment, just trying to understand your logic/reasoning. Like has been said, you need a lab to determine if they were poisoned, but it does sound doubtful at this point. J
    Quote Originally Posted by Fivej View Post
    Unless you are doing a sugar roll or alcohol wash, you are not really keeping a sharp eye out for mites. You might see the results of a virus they got from them, but not for the mites themselves. I am curious why you treat your pigs for parasites, but not your bees. Not insulting your judgment, just trying to understand your logic/reasoning. Like has been said, you need a lab to determine if they were poisoned, but it does sound doubtful at this point. J
    We sell the honey as treatment free. (and people have responded very well to it. We don't sell the pig meat as such. I'll have to try the sugar roll and I've not researched the alcohol method ... but it seems a little too destructive for me.

  11. #10
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    Onslow County, North Carolina, USA
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    If the bees made it through winter, I don't see how mites would kill them now. They have been flying and brooding in eastern North Carolina for at least a month or better. Could have been starvation during a cold snap. Not enough nectar in Richmond quite yet so the girls are hitting the syrup hard still. Fondant may have been too hard or too far away if they were trying to cover brood. Really need the pics to even make a good guess. Have they started spraying the fields yet where you are?

    I have been unable to find any hard statements that piperazine (Wazine) is lethal to bees, you should probably be looking for another cause for the hives dying.
    I think it was starvation. No honey stores and the fondant was too far away from the cluster. I hate it, but I did learn. I just need a good way to feed bees without the ants infesting the place.

  12. #11
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Could My Pig De-Wormer Have Killed My Bees?

    You could use a hive stand with a barrier that ants cannot cross. Some ideas here:
    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...lems-Solutions
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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