trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    St. Louis, Missouri USA
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    Default trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    I remember seing a post or video last year where someone explained how they get there bees to atach there foundationless comb to there bottom bar. I beleive it was by pinching/damaging the bottom comb a bit to get them to fix it to the bottom bar. I have been trying to find the video/post for hours and have had no luck on google. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I am getting ready to add 30 foundationless deep frames and figured this would be helpful once drawn.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    Par.....
    I don't know where to look for things I have seen. One more tip from such a thread or vidio besides just damaging the bottom that you want the bees to fix, I also heard you can jam a small peice of comb between where the bees stoped and your bottom bar and the bees will go to work on it and attach it. I have broke comb full of brood because I was too lazy to go to these steps and also have broke a few in the extractor for the same reason. I do find when extracting that a couple of rubberbands around the frames/comb does save more then not. I should also try some of the tricks but just never have and so live with some not being attached. It gets tougher as it gets older.
    I hope this helps some way. I am only starting my third year foundationless.
    gww
    zone 5b

  4. #3
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    Feb 2016
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    St. Louis, Missouri USA
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    thanks so much this is my third year too, I started with foundation and foundationless to help get my foundationless going and plan to move to 100% foundationless this year. thanks for the tips!

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Red Bud, IL, USA
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    1,812

    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    You both hit on it; shove a little burr comb in the gap or use your hive tool to cut a sharp angle in the comb (say 30 deg from horizontal) and bent the point down to the bottom bar. It gives them the idea.

    I'm probably stating the obvious but especially with foundationless deeps, ensure you handle the frames correctly, i.e. don't turn them horizontal/flat. Stringing/wiring adds support, full of honey exacerbates it decorating your shoes.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  6. #5
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    Feb 2016
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    thanks so much for the tips!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Wise county,Texas
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eikel View Post
    You both hit on it; shove a little burr comb in the gap or use your hive tool to cut a sharp angle in the comb (say 30 deg from horizontal) and bent the point down to the bottom bar. It gives them the idea.

    I'm probably stating the obvious but especially with foundationless deeps, ensure you handle the frames correctly, i.e. don't turn them horizontal/flat. Stringing/wiring adds support, full of honey exacerbates it decorating your shoes.
    I have done as Eikel stated and it works great, but I have since started adding wire to the bottom 2 hole runs and don't have the same issues I did prior to that. I don't like the extra work, but it has made a safer inspection day for me, especially in our summers when it's over 100 degrees. Left to their own devices, at least my bees, they seem to like a 3/8"-1/2" walkway at the bottom. BTW, I only wire the deep brood frames.
    “Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic”

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    My disclaimer. I have no experiance with deeps. I use all mediums. I will say that even with mediums you can screw up but over all not enough to go to extra work. I need to remember that lots of people use deeps when talking about foundationless so any small advice I might give actually fits.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    DuPage County Illinois
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    179

    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    Maybe a dumb question but why do you care if they attach it to the bottom? I have never worried about it.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Red Bud, IL, USA
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    Frequently the bees not only don't draw comb to the bottom bar they also leave open space along both sides. If the comb is going to blow out in the extractor it will be in this area, even with wire if you get too robust early on. I wire my frames, 2 wires on mediums, 4 on deeps and I don't use deeps for honey.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  11. #10
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    May 2016
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    Wise county,Texas
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eikel View Post
    Frequently the bees not only don't draw comb to the bottom bar they also leave open space along both sides. If the comb is going to blow out in the extractor it will be in this area, even with wire if you get too robust early on. I wire my frames, 2 wires on mediums, 4 on deeps and I don't use deeps for honey.
    Do your bees use deeps for honey?
    “Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic”

  12. #11
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    Mar 2014
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    The little beggars do and don't even bother to ask my opinion.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Aroostook, ME, USA
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    Yup, I run ALL deeps so Yes, honey goes into the deeps too.

    Myself, I like to use the bur comb for something, so I just scrape it into a frame to attach rather than wasting it.

  14. #13
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    I think it was Jay Smith, but it could have been someone else, who said you just put a spacer in when you nail your bottom bars on, so they are 3/8" low. After the comb is drawn to 3/8" from the bottom, you nail it the rest of the way into the notch.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Red Bud, IL, USA
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    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    I'm a glue freak and once the frames leave the assembly table it's all over for any future adjustments without employing a saw or a BFH.
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    5,020

    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    I don't think a BFH is the appropriate tool for frame disassembly, for a pallet maybe. I'm like you. Once the frames are glued and nailed, they aint coming apart. At least not in usable pieces.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
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    4,646

    Default Re: trick to ataching foundationless to bottom bar?

    By placing a piece of burr comb in the space between the drawn comb and the bottom bar two or three per frame forces the bee to attach it. This also makes most of them strong enough for a radial extractor without wires.

    Try to add your new foundationless frames one at a time between two frames of brood, they will drawn them quicker and straighter.

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