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My 21 deep frame observation hive

31K views 73 replies 23 participants last post by  ffrtsaxk 
#1 ·
Here's my observation hive. I'm just finishing it up. It has 21 deep frames. They can be individually isolated and removed without releasing the bees, insert queen excluders and bee escapes. And, it has a screened bottom board with an area to insert an oil tray.
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#38 ·
They had 1 column completely filled and were working on the other 2 columns when winter hit. There were way more bees in there than could fit on 7 frames at that time. They have dwindled down a good bit now, but are still healthy. Hopefully, they will be able to pack it out this year.
 
#39 ·
Wow! I don't know how I missed this thread originally. Lovely looking hive you've built, and really cool that they've settled in and doing their thing.
I'm curious how active they've been through the winter, and how much stores they consume, compared to a hive outdoors in your area.
Do you/did you feed much?
 
#40 ·
I haven’t feed them much so far. They consumed about 3 and a half frames of honey and removed the nectar they had backfilled a couple of brood frames with before I started feeding them syrup a couple of weeks ago. They’ve gone through about 3 pint jars of heavy syrup and several pints of water in that time. I have also started giving them pollen substitute since they are raising brood again. Since they don’t have to stay in a tight cluster, they haven’t been eating their way up the combs. They have been consuming the honey from top down. The queen and the nurse bees stay on the bottom brood combs even when there isn’t any brood and the workers have been moving honey down from the top to replace what’s consumed at the bottom. So far, I don’t think they have been consuming an inordinate amount of honey compared to the outside hives. That may be because the outside hives need to generate heat most of the time, but the only time the ones in the observation hive seem to generate heat is when there is brood and then they only heat that small area which has ranged from nothing to just over a frame of brood. The bees in the rest of the hive are about the same temperature as my office.
They are fairly active doing stuff in the hive, but not excessively so. There is usually a large group of field bees that just hangs out by the entrance doing nothing. Flights are limited to when my outdoor hives are also flying.
 
#42 ·
It’s Spring and they currently have 5 good frames of brood. The frames have about 8,400 cells per frame, so that’s about the limit if a queen is laying 2,000 eggs a day. A lot of bees hang out in the 2 covered columns especially at night when all the foragers are home. They also have pollen stored on the frame nearest the entrance. They like to hang out the window and wave at the neighbors on warm evenings. Cupboard Furniture Room Wood stain Shelf
Bee Window Insect Membrane-winged insect Honeybee
 
#44 ·
I'm planning an new OH and would like your advice, please. I'm doing my WindOH style again. It's a very wide window so I can go 2 frames wide by 3 or 4 high. It will be 2 frames deep. How big are the holes between your sections? Does the queen move easily from one to the next or has she stayed on one column?
 
#45 ·
The holes are ¾ of an inch. But, this is actually one of the things I would have done differently if I was making a stationary observation hive. But, since I need to roll mine from one wall to the other, I decided not to risk the structural integrity of the boxes by making longer oblong holes to allow the bees easier movement or using multiple pairs of holes offset from the center.
The old queen never left the column I introduced her to. The new queen that went on her matting flight 2 days ago has been in all 3 columns, but spends most of her time in the same column the 1st queen used. She isn’t laying yet though. When the new queen goes from box to box, she goes under the bottom. Because of the way the frames I am using are built, I realized that would likely be the way the queen would have to move when I built it. I am using Honey Super Cell fully drawn plastic comb. They have a spacer that runs the full length of both ends of the frames so that when you place them into a normal hive the bees cannot go around the ends, but have to go over the top or under the bottom of the frames. When placed in my observation hive, the space between the “glass” and those spacers is just enough for the workers to go around and get to and use the holes between boxes, but too small for the queen to go around. I could have cut those spacers off and might do so someday, but wanted to keep the frames completely interchangeable with the frames in my Langstroth hives.
Since you are probably using regular frames, you shouldn’t have the problem of the queen not being able to get to the holes. And, since you are making a smaller stationary observation hive, you can do the holes differently without worrying about anything breaking.
If I was building an observation hive like you are describing and I wanted to make sure that the queen went from one column to another, I would cut oblong 3/8 inch holes that line up with the gap between your front and back frames and extend at least half the height of the frame. I might leave a 3/8 inch space between the glass and sections of the support beam in the middle that the frames will be resting on like the one pictured here: https://illawarrabeekeepers.org.au/observation-hive-bob-perkins-legacy/
That might result in the bees building comb from the frames all the way over to the support beams. If I was using traditional frames without full length spacers and wanted to make sure they didn’t build comb between the frames and the support beams, I would cut pairs of either circular or oblong holes lined up with the center of the frames. My bees have not tried to fill in the ¾ inch holes between the boxes that are lined up with the center of the frames. But, if I was making oblong cuts, I would keep it to 3/8 or ½ inch.
 
#47 ·
Thanks for the details. I want to be able to slide doors to shut the holes. Going to allow it to be operated as one or two colonies. It should be pretty cool to shut it in spring and watch which side didn't get the queen make a new one. It will have top entrances out each side which can be closed as needed. I'm working on whether or not the doors will hinge or just unscrew and pull off.
 
#49 ·
ffrtsaxk, it's been a couple years since you last posted on this thread - have you maintained two colonies, or is a single colony using the entire space? Also, how do you go about maintaining the hive? Do you find a need to swap out frames and such? Or is it so large that they don't get crowded?
 
#50 ·
I have maintained it as a single colony. They have plenty of space and haven’t gotten overly crowded. So, I normally don’t need to swap out frames. But, they did go through the usual reproductive swarming process once this Spring (I learned a lot watching it happen on this scale) and I pulled a couple of frames out at that time with queen cells on them to make a split after they got a mated queen back. I left a few cells to see how that worked out. It was really cool watching the workers keep virgins captive inside their cells and feed them through holes and seal them back in and trying to keep the new queen from killing them. There was a whole lot of drama in there during that period and later as well, way more than in my small observation hive. The new queen got herself slightly stung by a worker when trying to kill a virgin in a cell in the Spring and I think that may have led to her laying doubles. They tried to supersede her, but that ended with a civil war in the hive with workers killing each other and the virgin. I harvested honey from it as well. I finally decided to requeen it because the queen was still laying doubles a lot. That was a real eye opener. After getting rid of the existing queen and waiting until they were hopelessly queenless, I added a queen and a couple frames of bees from a nuc with a screen in between them. When I combined them, it went nothing like either of the scenarios I would have expected. Once the new queen was accepted, she started laying and has been laying ever since. It’s January and they still have brood and are doing well.
That is the extremely abbreviated version of what has happened. I did a presentation on it at the local association with lots of videos and photos and I managed to keep it under 2 hours. Everyone loved it.
 
#56 ·
Both, once the queen starts laying she moves up and down in the column she is in and stays in that column. The workers place most of the stores in the same column as the queen, but also utilize the other columns for stores and hang out in the other columns at night and when there are too many bees to fit comfortably in one column. They also like to use the bottom frames of the column closest to the entrance for the dance floor and for storing pollen. Right now, the column furthest from the entrance has the brood chamber and most of the honey and pollen stores, but they also have 3 frames with pollen in the column by the entrance.
 
#62 ·
Yes, they are still on artificial comb and I do like using it enough that I no longer use wax comb. If you decide to try it, I recommend running it through the dishwasher before you use it. I got some in black once that looked like they had some sort of residue on them. So, I wash them all first and I don't have any acceptance issues.
 
#63 ·
I do believe many factors affect consumption rates. If you examine the metabolic curve for honey bee consumption of honey versus temperature you will see a pretty low consumption rate for about a 40F to 60F ambient inside the hive ( data form memory) - fairly wide range. If you look a the slope, consumption increases as internal temperatures rise but not a a fast as if it gets colder. The colder the ambient gets the more the more they consume to produce heat for survival.

There is more to the story as there is more than one issue such as moisture, CO2, brood rearing, dehydration. I have tried to weight hives every two weeks to get a trend in winter but was defeated by wet weather and an actual increase in hive weights! Understanding moisture control in a hive is not simple but it seems the bees are good at it.

In one case, increasing temperature you have increased consumption to raise brood, forage etc - things that help a hive survive. The opposite direction is purely survival from what I can see and learn. I'll take the warmer side and I heavily insulate with no top venting. My experience and efforts lead me to believe there is a tipping point whereby the bees control the inner environment to suit if you give them a chance.
 
#65 ·
The observation hive is doing well. It’s November 21, 2020 and they are still raising brood. It has been a crazy year though. They built up really well this spring and had about 5 deeps filled with surplus honey before they started the swarming process. Here’s a photo from early August. I had a couple of surgeries and was unable to split them when they were preparing to swarm so I got to see some really crazy stuff go down. The workers wanted to swarm, but the queen didn’t want to leave the hive and they couldn’t manage to get her out. So, when the virgins started emerging, the workers started killing them. After watching a number of virgins get killed and the queen still refusing to leave, I killed the queen by pressing on the polycarbonate sheeting. I was hoping that the workers would then let the virgins emerge and requeen the hive or swarm into a swarm trap I had set up. The workers however continued to ball and kill all of the virgins. Without checking my records, I think that went on for about 8 days before they finally stopped killing them. One of the virgins got mated and returned only to be killed by another virgin that emerged. Then the few remaining virgins battled it out until only one remained. Unfortunately, that one did not return from her mating flight and I ended up having to requeen the hive by placing a caged queen on the feeding screen for a number of days and then directly releasing her into the hive. That’s the short version. It really was crazy to watch it all unfold.
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