Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free - Page 3
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    10,148

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    i think jovian has been presented with a number of good options here including yours gww.

    caging queens is one of those skills i really need to develop myself.

    it will be interesting to see how it all turns out for him.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,012

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Square
    I only mentioned cageing the queen cause of not shaking all the bees and so needing to know where she was. I was thinking hair clip queen cacther. I guess there is risk of absconding due to having no comb to lay in but if it was my hives, I would release her in the long hive but did not know if that was good or bad advice. I just know that if I had langs and top bar hives, I would be doing something that did not require moving comb or if it did, it would only be one or two combs and not a whole hives worth. I don't know if this is a proper place to put it or a bad ideal for here and so if it is bad, I hope somebody corrects me.

    If jovian just wanted top bar hives and was resistant to keeping the langs, Abby warre was a big proponate of just using the bees and destroying the brood and comb when he used to move bees from skeps to warre hives. His view was that the brood was a draw and that with 4 lbs of bees and no brood that a good havest could be had if done during the beginning of a flow. Yet the hive would still be ready for winter.

    I don't put this out there to try and confuse the issue but more as an option of how the new bees might be used based on what might be wanted. I am greedy and so would want the langs and the top bar though if I wanted honey, I would try just the langs untill I was forced to make a split because of queen cells.

    It might be stupid but depends mostly on if jovian wants both kinds of hive (I would) or just wants long hives.
    This is not advice from me but more just a thinking point that I don't mind being called out on if it is bad.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  4. #43
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
    Posts
    82

    Default

    First thank you all for your wonderful input. So is right in that I am new to Beekeeping and outside of a cut out that never really did well due to queen issues during and post the move I have never had a hive. I have helped a fellow club member with his 20 Lang's for half a season and have done a couple cutouts from homes as well with him so I do know what I'm looking at and not afraid to get in there.

    I am not particularly hung up on any style hive and have worked the Lang's with my mentor and a couple top bars. Personally I definitely prefer the top bars style but still think there would be value in a better side by side comparison. My main hesitation for keeping the Lang's is equipment. I don't mind having it but don't necessarily want to keep equipment just for that one or two or buy more for a couple boom years.

    I am not sure if there are queen cells as when I picked them up it was only 40 degrees out so a deep inspection couldn't be done. Also he was getting a little Ansy cause he was getting several calls for them but was holding them for me and was worried I would be a no show and I didn't want to lose those bees. He was the previous president of our club and I trust him. So that is why I went ahead without a full inspection so the state of the colony is based on what he told me.

    Luckily I made my top bars with drop out bottom s so using them as supers may not be to difficult. They were also built to allow for a standard Lang top bar to fit on albeit with chopping the frame up. Perhaps the top bars could be nadired in some way as well.

    I am going to review the link on splitting hat I believe msl provided and after a inspection tomorrow looking for queen cells etc will try to come up with the best path forward with trying to keep as much intact as possible. It is the beginning of the flow here as SP states and swarms are just starting so a artifical swarm package has a certain logic to it ATM that's attractive. I think a lot will depend on how many queen cells I find and how far along they are.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Madison, AL
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    82

    Default

    I forgot to mention that I also happened to buy a bunch of the hair clip queen catchers a few weeks ago more in the hopes of a swarm or cutout call but figured they were never bad to have on hand. Glad that worked out. 🙂

  6. #45
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
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    Well that could have gone better and I am walking away from that feeling like I did far more harm than good. Of the 2 colonies the smaller a deep and a medium was large and healthy. I did find about 15 queen cups none of which had any larvae. 2 of the deeps weren't even drawn out but the rest we're either packed with stores and brood and the medium also either had stores and brood. Except for two drawn frames that we're empty. Unable to find the queen in the smaller one and given the space they still had I decided to leave them alone. That is where I should have stopped.

    Alas I didn't and went into the larger colony 3 mediums then a queen excluder and then 2 more mediums. The 2 super mediums were foundation and had nothing drawn. Below the queen excluder things were packed and indeed I found 2 swarm cells ready to be capped. They also had a couple frames of capped honey.

    I decided to go ahead and do a split with the new colony going into one of my top bars. I had intended this to be like a fly away split but was unable to find the queen again so it ended up being more of a walk away. I also did end up cutting some of the comb out and slinging it from the top bars. The new colony got about 5 mediums frames of brood of mixed age. But I did ensure it got one of the swarm cells and some eggs. It also got a couple frames of stores both honey and pollen. The original hive kept most of the stores and at least 10 frames of brood of mixed age including the other swarm cell and frames with eggs.by the time I got this all completed I looked around (here's the sad part) and realized I had kicked off a robbing frenzy. I sealed everything up and moved anything with honey or wax way off to the other end of the yard. That's were things are at now
    In about an hour I will go back and open the entrances again a small amount.

    Seeing the robbing really made my heart sink and I should have been better prepared to prevent it by doing things in smaller bits so the hives weren't exposed so long. And so I could have closed them up quicker. Given the extent of it I am now a little worried about the survival of all three of the hives I now have. If I were in this situation again I think I would opt to just allow the hives to swarm and capture the swarm to rehive in the new format. Alternatively if I had wanted to proceed with the split gotten some help from another been as SP suggested.

    Outside of looking for the queen with fairly inexperienced eyes things that took longer were dealing with the cross and Burr comb. Also getting the frames back in the hive was a huge challenge due to the proplis buildup.on the plus side I do have a bunch of comb and proplis I can now use to scent bait hives with.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Jovian
    Everything I do takes three times as long as I thought it would. You got in and what will be will be. There is really no other way than that to do it. I have a feeling that even with mistakes, it will mostly work out though it might take a little longer for things to rebound that best case would have. I would keep the entrances a couple of bee spaces till the bees from the hives start backing up trying to get in and out. Lot of traffic can go through really small openings. I would definatly not feed for a few days till things calm down. Others may be better at giving advice on the splits themselves then me.
    Thanks for the update of what you did today and hopefully you will give another one in a couple of weeks.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  8. #47
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    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
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    Thanks gww. That was the plan with the spacings and feed. I will certainly keep you all updated

  9. #48
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    it'll all work out jovian. thanks for the update.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #49
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
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    82

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Thank you SP. I checked on the new colony this evening real quick from a few bars from their brood nest looks like they are still covering the brood really well and everything was nicely warm. That said it looks like they had gone through the store I gave them pretty completelyl as well, so I will be feeding them starting tomorrow. I will also be feeding the smaller of the two colonies (the none split one) as that is what the previous beek was doing and they were significantly lighter than the larger one. I hope to be getting numbers applied and some records started on all these colonies this week so I can keep track for when grafting time starts rolling around in the coming years and so we don't all go insane with me trying to describe which hive is which

  11. #50
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    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
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    Well I fed the other day and had the entrances set to one or two bee widths. When I got home the new split were being robbed out. I went through the Combs quickly and they were still covering the brood. The queen cell was no longer there and I didn't see any of the uncapped brood I had put in. All the stores I had placed in were gone. So what to do? I went with the only thing I could think of. I combined them back with the original hive but instead of placing the frames I placed the original hive on top the new. I made a space a couple bee widths in the bars under the Lang so the bees could go between and double as a entrance. The pic below hopefully shows what I explained poorly. I fed them again this morning and everything looked good this evening even if the entrances were a tad jammed. I will give them a week or so before I go poking around some more.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #51
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    See you in a week then.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  13. #52
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
    Posts
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    Been a rather productive couple days. First I got all the hives labeled. Hive 1 is the strong Lang that I was trying to split. Hive 2 is the other Lang that is also going strong though not as much as 1. Hive 3 is the TBH that I was trying to get hive 1 into. And all the other hives are numbered and waiting up to 10.

    I moved hive 2 to it's permanent location this week and that seemed to go fairly well. Though I learned to ALWAYS ALWAYS strap Lang's together during a move. Y'all can guess what happened there.

    Hive 1 was initially on top of hive 3 with the hope the bees would move down I to the top bar. That seemed to work well and I separated them today and moved 1 to it's permanent spot as well. A post inspection/observation indicates hive 3 got the queen ( through bee behavior) but both have brood (though did not see young brood in either, a bit of concern) and plenty of bees. So will see how hive 1 looks in about a week.

    And to top it all off. I caught my first swarm of the season today. So Richinbama it has truly begun. Sucks the next three days are rain! As such I promptly moved them into hive 7. It was a big swarm and not sure how I missed them moving in. Guessing they were in the 5lb range.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jovian; 04-22-2018 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Clarification on observations

  14. #53
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    Jan 2018
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    Decatur / Cullman, also. 35603
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    768

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Wow, you on the ball there!!! I'm trying the swarm thing. I got 4 boxes out, and not a bit yet. I used Lemmon gr. Oil, and old comb, and baited with 1:1 sugar water. Bees here don't know what sugar is...lol. only been 24 hrs yet. How long ? Till they figure it out that I want to give an a new home...lol.
    Wow, a 5 lb er... kewl !!!

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Hall, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    It is much like fishing. Don't get too eager.

    there have to be scout bees in the area. Tom Seeley says these are bees who return with nectar and are not unloaded. They become uncomfortably full and start searching for a new home.

    So: you'll get nothing for 3 weeks, and then suddenly one day there will be 3 scouts. 10. 20. OMG 40 scouts. Zero. OMG where did they all go???

    Keep fishing. Some will move in eventually if you have provided a good home.

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Decatur / Cullman, also. 35603
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    768

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Thanks avatar, anxious I guess...lol. hoping to get the show on the road...lol

  17. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Decatur / Cullman, also. 35603
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    768

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Actually, just hoping I do things right. Seems where I put out traps, there are bees there, just thought I'd see more. Man, it like nothing but a field of blackberries, and ticks...lol . Seems like bees are slow in my neighborhood, mabye they are just recovering from a cold , hard winter yet. ???

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,012

    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Richinb.....
    I would get rid of the 1 to 1 sugar water. I could be wrong but find it hard to believe that bees would want to move into a home that is packed with robbers.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  19. #58
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    Jan 2018
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    Decatur / Cullman, also. 35603
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    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Your probably right there gww. I hadnt thought of that. Its been there 24 hrs, and i havnt seen a bee on it yet. Now rain for 2-3 days. Ill.go ahead and pull the 1;1. Thanks, gww

  20. #59
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Beginning Beekeeping Treatment Free

    Richin....
    Good luck with the trapping.
    gww
    zone 5b

  21. #60
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Madison, AL
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    I was able to get off of work a little early yesterday and decided to go in quickly to see how the girls were getting on. Hive 1 was indeed queen less, though I did see what appears to be a chewed queen cell. The pic is below if anybody would confirm or correct me. Nearly all of the preexisting brood was about to hatch so I gave them a frame of mixed brood from hive 2 that definitely had eggs to sealed brood on it.
    Hive 3 the one that most of hive 1 was transferred to is doing really well. I somehow managed not to kill the queen with all my bungling about thankfully as I saw fresh brood. They have completely attached all the cut out comb. And completely built out 8 of the bars with another 4 well under way. After seeing the uncapped brood I just I the comb was straight as is critical in too bar hives.

    Hive 7 the one the new swarm was placed in is also doing well with three full bars and 4 more on the way all perfectly straight. As it's a fresh swarm yet I didn't dig very deep just looked for the progress on the comb. I will do a deeper inspection in a week or two on this one.

    Hive 2 I only opened this week to look for some eggs for hive 1 which was quickly found. They looked strong to me and I am thinking I will add a super next week. I did notice one or two workers with varroa on their backs. Makes me wonder if I should start with a sugar roll next week as well.00001IMG_00001_BURST20180427140052_1524968490820.jpg

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