An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    I'd really love to see a functional hive in use.
    The design looks nice to the eye. Do you keep bees in yours at the current time wasabi? Id like to see one in use, and see it function with a colony in it. I bet it's nice!!! 😊

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    I wonder how they would handle a tornado?
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  4. #43
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    msl

    only zone 6 thus far. we are pre launch so seeking beta testers for data collection.

    doug

  5. #44
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Quote Originally Posted by Richinbama View Post
    I'd really love to see a functional hive in use.
    The design looks nice to the eye. Do you keep bees in yours at the current time wasabi? Id like to see one in use, and see it function with a colony in it. I bet it's nice!!! ��
    It is quite the sight Rich. I'm rebooting with packages behind electric fence this spring after losing hives to bears last fall.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Them black bears sure like honey...

  7. #46
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    May 2017
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    Victoria, Texas, USA
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    Default

    I've enjoyed "experimenting" some with my hives. Started with traditional langstroths and recently made a 38 frame horizontal lang to try and save my back some. Working out well so far. Yours look fairly light. Would definitely need a little air flow for the hot summers here in South Texas.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Actually they like the larvae....protein !

  9. #48
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    Jamesville, NC USA
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    You have an interesting product, but I don't see how is "solves" any perceived problems in a Langstroth set up. Weight was solved a long time ago with the introduction of polystyrene foam hive bodies. Appearance rates an A+ but it looks like workability gets an F. I suggest you market to the "save the bees" crowd and not waste your time trying to convince serious beekeeprs that you have built a better mousetrap.
    Thought it was the hundred pounds of honey that caused the problem, not the few pounds of wood. Okay to bash the guy, but please make sense doing so.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Thanks for the comment, Roddo.

    That said, I think it is a sad commentary on the state of things when "it is ok to bash a guy" just because? Of course I expect some of that but the lack of civility in society and random attacks is frankly stupid.
    I also asked for feedback, and expected some constructive criticism but giving an idea an "F for workability" with absolutely NO knowledge or discussion of its function doesn't make sense. JWPalmer seems so intent on making himself look clever by bashing that he even accused me of building mousetraps, instead better beehives with improved insulation, faster easier hive access and fewer modular parts.

    Does he have something better he built to compare it with, some constructive comments or is he content to just be negative and bash?
    I guess I just don't get the point...perhaps I'm just too old school...."if you don't like my peaches, then why shake my tree?"

  11. #50
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    I had the misfortune of meeting JWPalmer right when I started revisiting this site (amongst the other brainiacs). At least he presented himself as who he really is right off the bat. I like the aesthetics of your hive but have the same questions about ease of workability and interchangability, supering, etc.
    Zone 5 @ 4700 ft. High Desert

  12. #51
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    JW has never promoted an untested product here that he is trying to get buy in and investors for. He does at least take the time and try and help poeple that come to this site and need it. I have had hardy discussions with him when we were not on the same side and he came across as good natured and not hateful in those arguements. Wasabe, you have only promoted your product. Several have looked at your professionaly produced vidio ( that you did a good job on) and said it would be nice to see the thing in action and being worked in real time so that a real view of what is being looked at besides nice still pictures.

    You are the promotor, we are the skeptics that you are trying to promote too.
    You may have something but you did ask for opinions and you are the one trying to get buy in and help.

    I would take the ten people that JW has helped over the request that you get help.

    I don't discount what you have done but also am having a hard time judging the need and am waiting on you to show enough that a real decision can be made and untill then, I like Jw, have to come to my conclutions with what I know now.

    I think my warre hive is pretty compared to my lang hive and so I may put it up by the road but it has no advantages over my langs when it comes to running an apary. You are makeing the claim that your hive is better in more then just looks. I don't believe it yet and am waiting for you to show me. I don't call you a liar, I just say I don't see it yet and untill I do, I could not say that JW is wrong.

    You did a nice job, the hive would make an area look nice in the way that some statues and log hives I have seen used for decoration. I could see people wanting one even if it only worked and did not work better than a lang. You have made a small case that it is better and you are going to have to show us how cause I don't see it with the knowlage I have right at this moment.
    Good luck.
    gww
    zone 5b

  13. #52
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Rwurster - I don't consider meeting JW online a misfortune at all. Quite the contrary. I've read a lot of his posts that make perfect sense and I too am grateful to him and others for sharing their wisdom. I think it is worthwhile, however, to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. I get that folks want to see more of the interior workings. I also get that showing everything before the legal work is done is not such a good idea. That said, there is not near enough information left out for a reasonably discerning viewer to warrant a harsh "F" comment. That may be his opinion. I have mine and I hope other beeks make up their own minds.

    The core idea here is actually pretty straightforward and not such a leap of faith for logical thinkers. Consider this: While rectangular and square frames make perfect sense for woodworkers making them...are they really the most logical design we humans can come up with for the health of the bees? What's with all the corners and margins outside the cluster space? Do we cling to Langstroth's designs because they have become the default "standard" over the past hundred and seventy years or because they are actually superior in some way? Rectangular or square frames and boxes are counter-intuitive from the get go (except for the makers). Think about that. Bees cluster in an extended sphere, not a box shape. And irrespective of the inventors, or brands, typical rectangular hives have been experiencing horrific winter losses for years. I think it is time for some rethinking of what actually serves bees best.

    It seems to me the brilliance that bees have shown with honeycomb construction was ignored when is came to hive construction. The simple logic of spherical (bee cluster) shaped hives should suffice to jostle an acute mind if it is halfway open. But minds that are convinced they know better will also miss both the need and the importance of better temperature regulation. All the videos, explanations and pictures in the world won't change that dynamic. More importantly, I think the bees needs are better addressed in these hexagonal environs which 1) eliminate most of the corners and margins and 2) provide a tighter ratio of honeycomb area to cubic inches of hive space. Why would that matter? Heating and cooling the hive taxes the bees tremendously...to the point that they often don't survive winters due to fluctuations in hive temps that they simply can't sustain. With current stats indicating losses in excess of 40 percent, I think it is worth a try to make tighter, better insulated hives for bees to overwinter in. That these hives end up simplifying inventory and convenience for the beekeepers is a bonus, not the driving goal.

    These hives are extremely easy to work as they quickly fold open for easy access to all hive boxes, but at the same time they allow enough isolation to help bees better manage temperature. Another factor that gives them an edge is is additional insulation. I've also taken a close look at the thermodynamics of beehives and have come up with a hive systems that retains heat better. It also happens to deliver a host of advantages to beekeepers, none of which on the surface is earth shattering, but collectively offer an alternative to the tried and not so proven typical, standard rectangular (or square) frames and stacks of boxes. Not for everyone, but if there is sufficient demand, we'll build them right.

    There have also been several comments regarding ventilation....an interesting but largely misunderstood matter. While it is true ventilation can help vent excess moisture, it not a good thing to simultaneously vent out and lose valuable heat, especially if it cools down the hive to the point that water condenses on cold inner covers and hive walls and get the bees wet.

    As for interchangeability, supering etc, (presumably with Langstroth "standards"), the simple answer is there isn't much place for it in my hive design. I did consider it and have tweaked one of our standard hive boxes to accommodate four deeps and four mediums, but it is a contrived solution looking for an occasional problem. We'll likely offer it as an option for beeks that like to experiment. FWIW, the flexibility of my system does permit an extra "super" on top so a three box hive can become four and a seven box hive can become eight.

    All said, this beekeeping system is NOT designed to be compatible with Langstroth, Warre, UK National, AZ or any other hive system. My integrative hive system purports to offer a logical ALTERNATIVE to rectangular beekeeping as usual. I sincerely hope it can help "move the needle" on the declining incidence of bee health worldwide. If it helps some folks improve the appearances of their property or serves as a pretty garden hive, what's the harm of trying?
    Last edited by wasabi; 03-24-2018 at 12:42 PM. Reason: clarity

  14. #53

    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Many people try to improve a hive.

    My personal belief is to have less frames is better but this hive looks cute and to pull the frames must be a joy ( but not to look for the queen)

    I like this for hobbyists or "rose gardens":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Hobo...=1885&bih=1012

  15. #54
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Thanks for your comments, SiWolKe "cute" seems to be a popular descriptor.....not the goal, but we'll accept it....after all, they are, well, sort of "cute"

    I love seeing what so many beeks and designers have come up with over the last few hundred years. Tons of creativity out there!

    I love the round hives and the hex hives I've seen, but they seem to require multiple frame sizes to work. Such is the case with the Hobosphere you like. Not practical but definitely nice eye candy.

    That stunning design is built more for looks than practicality or functionality which may be fine if it is a one or two hive operation, but it would not scale well.

    With my new system all boxes and all frames are the same size and exchangeable within and between all our Honeycomb Hive boxes, from Nucs to full Fold-Hives.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Greetings Beeks,

    A number of folks have commented here and on other beek groups that they think these Fold-Hives will be expensive, so this warrants mentioning:

    In order to keep costs down and in an effort to produce long lasting hive boxes, we will be offering an economy version of these hives made out of high quality exterior plywood. I suspect, but have not yet decided, that this decision may also allow us to assemble the boxes with glue and staples and then ship them with necessary frames, closing hardware, entrance chambers, hinges, screws etc. This would mean some fairly simple assembly tasks but will be a lot closer to "just add bees" than assembling the whole hive from scratch. Also worth noting is that our CNC manufacturer has special exterior plywood specifically made for their product line and, as a result, I have access to literally tons of scrap at deeply discounted pricing. All in all, between this, CNC manufacturing and the modular nature of the design, this means my goal of making these hives competitively priced is entirely realistic.

    While I gather a lot of beeks make hives out of regular plywood, the only plywood we will use is high grade exterior. We'll likely sell them unfinished and suggest they be painted or oiled according to beek's preferences

  17. #56
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    If you can keep the cost down I would like to have one.

  18. #57
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Thanks for responding Dan

    We WILL get the costs down and I'll soon know and post specificss. Additionally, we will discount first orders on INDIEGOGO when we launch. I expect the exterior plywood hives will allow us to keep those costs (and manufacturing complexity) down. My plan is to price them to be comparable to competing hives of similar quality. For example our target price for a three box Fold-Hive including 48 hexagonal frames is about the same price as a Lang 2 deep + 2 med + base + cover. The craftsman series with cypress boxes and interlocking joinery will naturally be more expensive, to what degree remains to be seen.

    Unlike Flow-Hives, we don't anticipate ten million dollars of pre-orders. That would be nice, and we would put the money to good work, but it is not necessary for us to move forward. Our primary focus is to fine tune the manufacturing to produce a great product. Future growth will come if the products impress. The first twenty new Fold-Hives will go into our expanding apiary here on our mountain farm in NC. Whatever number of preorders come in will be added to that, but it has to be a quick launch as we're aiming for delivering hives in May this year. I honestly have no idea how strong demand might be, so we'll start off modestly by offering what we think we can realistically manufacture, pack and ship for May delivery. If there is sufficient demand above that we'll offer extended delivery dates for the overflow. I really should have launched this earlier this year but there are a lot of details to say the least.

    The beest way to get the best price will be to get on board early in the launch to get "Early Bird" hives through INDIEGOGO, currently scheduled for April 21st, but we may move it up a bit. We're excited to beta-test with as many INDIEGOGO backers as want to get in on the ground floor, but we want to do this right. You can view the preview page and register your email with INDIeGOGO here to get more info and updates:

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/f...on/coming_soon.
    Last edited by wasabi; 03-26-2018 at 02:40 PM. Reason: spelling

  19. #58
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Looking at this design and the photos does opening the hive invert the frames upside down? Wont that be a problem for uncapped honey that is not yet cured?

  20. #59
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Thanks for a great question, Jeff

    Good practice means leaving the hive alone as much as possible during strong honey flow, but even if one needs to open their FOLD-HIVE before honey is capped, it’s unlikely to spill. The frames rotate about half way so they’re never upside down. Honey is viscous so it flows slowly. Typical inspections are five to ten minutes, or even quicker with a Fold-Hive.
    Last edited by wasabi; 03-27-2018 at 10:13 AM.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: An Introduction to FOLD-HIVES

    Brad,

    Sorry for the delayed response, but here it is. We are at 3500 ft elevation in what is considered a "High Wind" area.

    Two years ago I lost two hives because the roofs acted like sails and were blown off in a vicious storm, exposing the colonies to rain and then bitter cold.

    Lesson learned. We now have secure roofs that can't blow off
    We also bolt our hives to the cross beams of the hive stands.

    As for a tornado I doubt they will fare better or worse than other hives depending upon the category of storm

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