Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    How's everyone doing so far ? I'm just starting to see scouts here in Northeast PA .

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    The swarms have arrived in Central Virginia. I've caught 3 swarms in 3 days. One, on the road, one on the outside of the swarm trap, and one, uh, my own. They apparently didn't like the experimental hive I put them in.

    To follow up on Soarwitheagles and mega-baiting, I put extra lure in two traps: One, with SC spritzed right in the entrance and in a baggie hung on the outside of the trap. The second with extra lure on the outside of the trap, only. The first one caught, but sure enough the upside down bee pyramid formed on the bottom of the trap. I'm happy to have the bees, but it sure was a lot of work! I am going to continue trying extra lure under the ratchet strap on the outside of the box. I put a baggie with a rag containing about 5 drops of LGO, and one pump of SC with the open end down under the strap.

    To the veteran trappers: Do you think the extra lure on the outside of a box casts a wider net, attracting more scouts to check out a particular trap? Is just more irresistible, like freshly baked bread is to us? Or is it just chance?

    See posts #118 & #120 for pics:


    https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321131-Virginia&p=1627553#post1627553
    Last edited by clong; 05-05-2018 at 05:35 AM.

  4. #63
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    soar,

    I have out 7 traps right now. I took one that I pass by every weekday and attached an open baggie with lure to the strap holding the box. The baggie contains a rag infused with two pumps of Swarm Commander, and 5 drops of LGO.
    No scouts yet.

    I am thinking of setting up a second trap the same way.
    clong,

    Many of the beekeepers here are light years ahead of me in knowledge, experience, and tremendous success with honey bees. So I am trying not to step on toes or refute or contradict what they are saying...

    But I also must be totally honest...

    In my specific situation, I am experiencing some very different results than what the experts are saying. I am not gonna say they are wrong because I have no business saying that with me being a bee hobbist for less than three years, and some of these guys are 40+ years with full time working with the bees.

    I cannot give a clear answer as to why we are experiencing success in capturing large numbers of swarms.

    Last year, many people told us it was due to having a large bee organization nearby. So I believed that. But then I discovered there are no large bee organizations nearby. So that shot that theory down.

    We live surrounded by a significantly large eucalyptus forest. So then people told us we are capturing so many swarms because the feral hives live in the eucalyptus forest. Then a person with a lot of knowledge and insights told us that honey bees rarely live in eucalyptus forests because there aren't very many hollowed out trees. So that shot that theory down.

    Others [myself included] thought I am catching my own beeyard swarms. But we keep finding all my hives still have their marked queen, and every swarm we have caught has a large beautiful, unmarked queen. So this shoots down that theory too.

    I have no clue why we can place 5 swarm traps at 10 pm [I just finished 5 more swarm traps 30 minutes ago], then, wake up, see 200-300 scout bees before 10 am, then before noon, we hear that beautiful noise that we have come to call the honey bee freight train! We have placed 5 swarm traps during the evening, then, have 5 new swarms before 2 pm the next day.

    OdFrankieBoy and many others say too much lure is detrimental [acts as a repellant].

    Frank says he does not bait his traps even after several months...

    Well, for us, that simply does not work! I tested this theory by leaving some swarm traps for weeks and some for months...and not one swarm caught. And it was frustrating to me too.

    Then I began to load the traps with lure, and within minutes the scout bees are all over the trap, within hours, here comes the army of bees...and this has been my experience over, and over, and over again.

    If I had hung 20+ swarm traps weekly since April, I would presently be well over 100 swarms caught. Heck there have been days when we see or hear 10+ swarms per day and no, I am not exaggerating.

    My biggest problem has been not being able to build the boxes, frames, covers, bottoms, and stands fast enough to house all the swarms.

    I am posting a pic below that shows a swarm that arrived before noon today. I did an experiment by loading it with lots of lure, placing the trap near our AG building, with workers walking by every few minutes. Nearby, I left 3 swarm traps that had not been baited in weeks.

    Sure enough, hundreds of scout bees before 9 am. My workers commented on it. I told them I was hoping they would see their very first swarm. Within two hours, we heard the roar. I couldn't see them at first. One of my workers shouted, pointed up, and there they were, descending from about 75 feet up. The workers got a real kick out it and took selfies too.

    And this swarm did not remain long on the outside of the box...within two hours, 90% poured though the 1" hole and remained inside the box until we housed them around 4pm today.


    I have a deep respect for people like Charlie B, OdFrank, Michael Bush, etc. and I have learned so very, very much from people like this. BUT, in this given situation, we am experiencing something quite outside the norm.

    For now, I will continue to use copious amounts of lure scent [8-16 drops or sprays].

    Hope this helps!

    Quote Originally Posted by SubwayRocket View Post
    How's everyone doing so far ? I'm just starting to see scouts here in Northeast PA .
    We had a slight lull in the swarms when the weather cooled and the rain arrived, but that was weeks ago. Everything right back up to speed again now.5.5.18.jpg

    Finally, here is a pic of another swarm that landed yesterday on a eucalyptus tree only 15 ft from one of our buildings. It was about 15-20 up. I was concerned that I might fall if I climbed up to retrieve it. I was gonna try with a vacuum cleaner but I am not sure how to do it.

    Today, immediately after catching the other swarm, this tree swarm took off and headed right into the deep forest and we never saw it again.5.5.18b.jpg
    Last edited by soarwitheagles; 05-05-2018 at 09:47 PM.

  5. #64
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    >OdFrankieBoy and many others say too much lure is detrimental [acts as a repellant].

    Why do you to use a derogatory nick name for me? All I did was give you advice. We did not say that too much lure acts as a repellent. We said we attribute swarms hanging from the bottom of traps because too much lure has been used. Obviously they arrived, so it did not repel them. It just was overpowering fro them to stay inside.
    How many have you caught to date this season using the heavy lure technique?

  6. #65
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    I have no clue why we can place 5 swarm traps at 10 pm [I just finished 5 more swarm traps 30 minutes ago], then, wake up, see 200-300 scout bees before 10 am, then before noon, we hear that beautiful noise that we have come to call the honey bee freight train! We have placed 5 swarm traps during the evening, then, have 5 new swarms before 2 pm the next day.
    Has anyone ever looked into a hive that is being heavily scouted?

    On my recent catch, the trap hosts reported seeing a lot of scouts around 9AM, but it was a few days after the extra lure was added. Upon investigating that afternoon around 4PM, there were about 20 bees all around the trap and entrance, in a manic state. There weren't any bees wrestling at the entrance. I raised the lid to take a look. There were 50+ bees all buzzing around in the box, with 5-6 headfirst in the cells. Same crazy behavior, kind of like a cat with catnip. At the time, I assumed there was residual honey left in the comb. Could this behavior be due to too much lure? Or is that what always goes on in trap? Anyway, the swarm arrived at 6:30PM.

  7. #66
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    >OdFrankieBoy and many others say too much lure is detrimental [acts as a repellant].

    Why do you to use a derogatory nick name for me? All I did was give you advice. We did not say that too much lure acts as a repellent. We said we attribute swarms hanging from the bottom of traps because too much lure has been used. Obviously they arrived, so it did not repel them. It just was overpowering fro them to stay inside.
    How many have you caught to date this season using the heavy lure technique?
    Frank,

    I wasn't aware that you would consider frankieboy derogatory...so sorry, I apologize! Let me know how you would like me to address you and I will be happy to do so...and I also promise to not flip the bird too!

    I lost count after 30 swarms frank. I sincerely believe we could have caught between 100-200 swarms if I had only been better prepared with boxes, lids, and bottoms. I have had to leave some swarms in the traps for up to three weeks due to lack of time or lack of boxes to house them.

    Hope this helps!

    Frank, the bees did enter the trap yesterday and the trap had fresh, 8+ drops or spray of lure. I am using 4 types of lure in each trap now.

  8. #67
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    >I had only been better prepared with boxes, lids, and bottoms. I have had to leave some swarms in the traps for up to three weeks due to lack of time or lack of boxes to house them

    You do realize that instead of building special "traps", you could trap in standard boxes with standard bottoms and tops?

  9. #68
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    >I had only been better prepared with boxes, lids, and bottoms. I have had to leave some swarms in the traps for up to three weeks due to lack of time or lack of boxes to house them

    You do realize that instead of building special "traps", you could trap in standard boxes with standard bottoms and tops?
    Yes, especially if you have such a high percentage of captures.
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

  10. #69
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Soar, personally I think you owe Ollie a real apology, not that " I'm sorry you're offended" nonsense. I would be a little peeved also. As for the use of lure, whatever works for you. Sounds like you are staying busy. Many of us could only hope for a portion of the success you are enjoying.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #70
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    >I had only been better prepared with boxes, lids, and bottoms. I have had to leave some swarms in the traps for up to three weeks due to lack of time or lack of boxes to house them

    You do realize that instead of building special "traps", you could trap in standard boxes with standard bottoms and tops?
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheWaterbug View Post
    Yes, especially if you have such a high percentage of captures.
    Yes gentlemen, but I did not figure that out until recently. Lately, along with the traps I have been using the eight and ten frame boxes with a piece of 3/8" ply fastened to the top and the bottom. Also drilled a 1" hole in front. Then I attached 1/2" wire mesh on the inside to keep the darn mice from entering the traps and causing havoc. Finally, trying to install those stainless steel round discs so I can seal the trap after the catch.

    Yesterday for the very first time, my wife had the wonderful idea of taking extra wax and plugging the holes before we removed the traps. It worked well.

    I told my wife yesterday I wish we had simply built 50 boxes drilled the holes, attached the ply on the top and bottom, and hung them way back in April. The good news is we are now prepared for this for next year.

    BTW, for the first time since the rain, today, the 100's of scout bees are NOT hammering the traps as they have for weeks on end. So now I suspect the swarm season may be winding down. Last year it was crazy good, then stopped for nearly one month, then kicked in ferociously for another month. I am not sure if we will have a second swarm cycle this year...

    I am still a total rookie compared to most of you. It was not until yesterday I figured out how to save massive time...my wife and I suited up, then drove our truck to each swarm trap, loaded all traps, drove them to the bee yard, housed all traps, then rebaited all traps, loaded in the truck, then off we went to hang them again. Kinda embarrassed to tell you we were processing only one trap at a time for the last two years...in some areas, it takes me a while to catch on...

    One of the most important discoveries for me is to NOT leave the swarm in the trap for weeks on end. Yesterday we spent considerable time cutting off comb filled with eggs, larvae and honey, then reattaching them to empty frames with rubber bands. We only put 4 frames in each trap due to the weight issues, so the when the bees are left in the trap during a large flow, they build their own foundation without frames. On one hand, it is beautiful, but also can be a bit messy too and requires time to cut out and attach the comb...

  12. #71
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Soar...
    I don't know if you would consider this an improvement but, I don't use the little metal circle thingys to close the entrance. I don't keep mice out well either but did have a swarm move in a trap that had a nest in it. I use all kinds of configurations for traps including adding skirts to make boxes bigger. My favorite is to just build deeps and then if I need to use them for a hive, just cut them down to mediums which is what I use on my hives. So back to the entrance closer metal thingy. I have normal hive entrances and holes and so all my traps are not the same. I used to incorperate a way to close those up. Now I just use stiff window screen that is a little bigger then any entrance I might have. I can then just stick this in any size hole and it sorta jams its self so that it does not come out easy. As long as I got a little peice of screen, I can close anything up and it still lets a little air flow in. Might be stupid but thought I would mention it.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  13. #72
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Has anyone ever looked into a hive that is being heavily scouted?
    I bought myself another security camera with IR illuminators, plus some glass squares, so I'm going to enhance my swarm trap to do exactly this.

    Of course I should have done this a few days ago, because I just trapped another swarm this morning .

    But now I get a chance to re-set it fresh again, with an inside view.
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

  14. #73
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheWaterbug View Post
    So I'm trying this now. I shook the box out at my bee yard and left the site vacant for a few days to get rid of all the stragglers, but now the trap is reset:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIV...y2qpRhiMg/live

    I put 2 drops inside the box and 2 drops on cotton balls inside a closed ziploc a month ago, and I didn't refresh that this morning.

    But I did sprinkle 8-10 drops outside the box, and i had scouts within an hour of doing that. It's overcast today, but it should be nice and sunny the next two days. Watch that camera!
    I set the trap with extra (external) lure on Thursday night, and the swarm moved in this morning (Monday). This is fast by my standards, as previous captures in this location had a week or more of scouting activity before move-in. Does this have anything to do with the extra LGO? Who knows? n=1, σ=∞, YMMV.

    The bees did hang out outside the box for 2 hours before breaking cluster, flying around, and then finally entering the box. Does this have anything to do with the extra LGO? Who knows? The extra LGO was outside, and the inside had only a normal amount, and a month old, at that.

    I plan to interview the bees later this week and see what they know.
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

  15. #74
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Congrats water bug.

    Only one of the 5-6 new swarm traps had the 200-300 bees on em' today. The others had 10-30 and could have been forager bees from the previous swarms...the one swarm that was getting hammered was placed where no swarm trap was for 2 months. So I think this will be a new method for us. Simply do not replace a trap at the same location that caught a swarm for a least a few weeks...simply move them a few dozen yards or so.

    gww, thank you for sharing your ideas. For now, I like using a wax plug for the swarms caught here on our property. Tomorrow I must pick up a swarm from a trap I placed 40 miles south of here. I prefer to screw a piece of wood on the trap entrance to avoid any bees from escaping [I would like to avoid unnecessary liability issues].

    I believe we should have a monster swarm by tomorrow in the one trap that was getting hammered today...truth of the matter is...I was wondering if it already had a swarm inside...hope to find out for sure tomorrow.

    How do we know if it is lots of scout bees or if a swarm has already moved in?

    I like the idea of a camera...

    I have a question...

    Can I take down a loaded swarm trap, then leave it for 8-10 hours in 80-90F degree weather in the back of my truck or would this kill the bees?

  16. #75
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Caught two more swarms here today. I will do my best to house them tomorrow.

    Picked up some pollination bees we placed in April. Had good build up. I also picked up a swarm from the same orchard. Fairly strong, but left in the trap way too long again. Lots of free hanging loaded comb on the cover.

    Swarm season here is beginning to abate. I am beginning to see less and less scout bees hammering the traps...

  17. #76
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    "You never can tell with bees."--Winnie the Pooh. One experiment does not prove a point. Every colony makes it's own decisions. The object is to find what works more often and not less often.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  18. #77
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    "You never can tell with bees."--Winnie the Pooh. One experiment does not prove a point. Every colony makes it's own decisions. The object is to find what works more often and not less often.
    Well said Michael Bush and I totally agree with you!

  19. #78
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Maybe swarm season is still going...

    We made 20 brand new nucs, assembled frames for each one, then installed the wax coated yellow plastic foundation from Mann Lake. I came home today and massive scout bees in our building hammering the brand new nucs with the wax coated plastic. Kinda irritating to be honest with you.

    JRG told us to put em' outside. We did that tonight...will see what happens next...

  20. #79
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    These performed the best for me.
    Previously used by bees.
    Just free-standing on the ground.
    About 50 liters in volume.
    Inside Lang deeps turned 90 degrees.

    Attachment 37232
    Attachment 37233

    Will be building a couple more similar traps for next season (found few authentic empty logs).
    Both of these free-standing "logs" are doing well this season (meaning bees found them right away and have been sniffing on and off). And now, I am pretty sure, they are zeroing onto one of these.
    No matter the cool and rainy days yesterday and today, there is active scouting in progress.
    Fingers crossed.

    20180621_081844.jpg

    On the subject - free standing works fine; though it seems these tall structures with entrance above the grass line are the best for free standing. If a standard trap box is free standing, it is better to set it up on some 2-3 foot structure so to raise the entrance above the grass level (my opinion and note to self - I got free standing traps with an entrance too low above the ground; need to raise a couple of feet up).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #80
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Finally completed and installed a couple of additional log traps.
    Inside are Lang mediums hanging upright.
    Missed the prime time if there was any this year, but hey, never know.
    Better off standing in bush, not on the driveway.
    20180708_202324.jpg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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