Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    I did build the nucs boxes with butt joints, but i used titebond 2 , and caulked every seam, crack, knot up well. I'll do 2 coats primer, and 2 coats in semi gloss exterior paint. I have an abundance, as I do custom painting, as well as home repair/remodels.
    Question... on the bottom board, should I paint the entire inside bottom, or just lip inside a few inches?

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  3. #42
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    fauquier, va, usa
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Following Rocket's guidance and starting with the D. Coats nuc plans here https://www.beesource.com/wordpress/w...nuc_coates.pdf

    I developed this cut-sheet which should let you cut 3 traps from a single 4'x8' sheet of 1/2" plywood.
    Caveat: It doesn't take the saw-kerf width into account, so measure twice, cut once.

    I haven't tried this yet, so if you find errors, please let me know and i'll fix them...


    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by Branman View Post
    In my experience, you rarely need to refresh the lemongrass oil. Zero to once a season. They can sense minute amounts and too much becomes a repellent.
    Quote Originally Posted by SubwayRocket View Post
    Exactly. Can't stress this enough, I mention this at several points in the video. If I refresh, it's lightly, and only around the outside of the entrance hole as shown in the video.
    Catching multiple swarms at each location doing this.
    Too much Inside the trap becomes a repellant.
    I beg to differ with ya! Too much swarm lure acts as a repellent? I suppose that depends upon your definition of too much!

    Swarm traps left more than a week without replenishing the lure rarely catch any swarms at all here. And I learned this after two years of catching swarms. So we are experiencing exactly opposite of what you guys are declaring!

    For the first time ever, we began to bait our swarm traps with 5-6 times MORE lure than previous attempts...and the results were nothing less than amazing...

    Up to 10 swarms per day. And no, I am not exaggerating!

    I now spray 3 sprays of Swarm Commander, 6 drops of LO. 6 drops of Ebay lure. And finally, two Q-tips loaded with the weird ebay lure that is found in those quarter coin size containers that have wax in the lure. We noticed a massive increase of catching swarms here after increasing the queen lure.

    We replenish the queen swarm lure on a weekly basis or we see a massive DECREASE in the number of swarms we catch.

    We use 8-10 frame boxes with only 4 frames of super dark comb per box, but ya gotta remove the swarms within 1-2 days or deal with the free hanging foundation loaded with honey, eggs, and larvae.

    Swarm 03.30.18a.jpgSwarm 03.30.18c.jpgSwarm 04.10.jpgSwarm 04.11.jpgSwarm 04.9.jpg

    Results?

    The photos should speak for themselves!

    Good luck to all of you!

    Soar
    Last edited by soarwitheagles; 04-15-2018 at 09:55 PM.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post

    The photos should speak for themselves!

    Soar
    Your photos clearly show that the swarms build combs OUTSIDE of your traps.
    Sure, you go them attracted TO the box.
    But on INSIDE the box.


    PS: still works, but why the mess?
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Your photos clearly show that the swarms build combs OUTSIDE of your traps.
    Sure, you go them attracted TO the box.
    But on INSIDE the box.


    PS: still works, but why the mess?
    Greg, great questions!

    1. Many of the swarms we catch are what we call monster swarms. So they will come in like a large freight train and the numbers are so large they will not all fit into the swarm box. Not all swarms are monster swarms, but many are. Yes, a few swarms land on the outside of the box and remain there for days if we do not box em' up quick.

    2. Yes, this is the first year we see swarms landing and building comb outside the box. And they will build comb within hours. The reason why? I have no clue whatsoever. None built comb outside the box last year!

    3. Most swarms here will land on the box, then parade in through the hole into the box.

    4. I am not joking...I tried the six times more lure just as an experiment and I tell you, it was the most swarms we ever caught in one day [I hardly call that a repellent].

    5. Last, I was terribly misinformed...I thought most of our swarms are coming from commercial bee yards. I just found out there aren't any nearby commercial bee yards nor were there any last year.

    What does this tell me? It tells me I still have no clue what I am doing and that I know very, very little about bee behavior. It tells me not all bees follow fellow beekeepers declarations and protocols and that some of those declarations are terribly inaccurate. It tells me I can learn a lot of good info from my fellow beekeepers here at BS but that I need to be very, very careful what I read at Bee Source and not believe every report I read!

    Oh my!
    Last edited by soarwitheagles; 04-15-2018 at 10:06 PM.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Good discussion and tips. I've got 3 traps set since March 31. Using LGO & SC. I've seen some a little activity, but no swarms. I think the biggest problem here (SE Virginia) is the temps. Although we've had a few days about 80, most have been in the 60's & 70's with high winds and rain. The SC label says to re-bait once a week or as needed. Will probably re-bait this Wed as that will be a week.

  8. #47
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    Default

    Swarms not entering traps is caused by overbaiting. I caught a 5 frame swarm last week using SCL that had been only applied once six weeks ago.
    Eagles caught six swarms in one day because it was a swarmy day, not because of overbaiting. The pictures show that all were repelled by excess bait.
    All of my opinions and suggestions are based on my five decades of actual beekeeping,
    not so much on book learning, watching YouTube videos nor reading internet sites.

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by VaJim View Post
    Good discussion and tips. I've got 3 traps set since March 31. Using LGO & SC. I've seen some a little activity, but no swarms. I think the biggest problem here (SE Virginia) is the temps. Although we've had a few days about 80, most have been in the 60's & 70's with high winds and rain. The SC label says to re-bait once a week or as needed. Will probably re-bait this Wed as that will be a week.
    Jim,

    To everything there is a season...

    Here, the swarms have seasons or spurts. There are times when I will not see a swarm or catch a swarm for weeks. Then, there are spurts when we will bait traps at 10 pm, and every trap will have a swarm by noon the next day. It really is amazing. You will see the scout bees on the traps by 9-10 am, and an hour or two later you will here the large buzzing sound and here they come!

    Another thing that amazes me: I will place several swarm traps on the east side of our property [afternoon sun] and not one swarm for weeks. I placed traps on the west side of the property [morning sun], and every trap has a swarm by noon. Do the same exact thing the very next day, and same exact results and I have no clue why. Also, JRG placed traps in the deep forest here at our place, almost no swarms [he caught one last week after several weeks of no swarms].

    I know very, very little about the science of bee behavior. I am trying to learn more every day, but they keep doing stuff that leaves me scratching my head...

    My only regret is that I did not have 20+ traps to hang when the bees come down our "swarm ally"! Presently we are working on producing 20 more swarm traps to use when the swarms come in like crazy...

    Patience son!

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Swarms not entering traps is caused by overbaiting. I caught a 5 frame swarm last week using SCL that had been only applied once six weeks ago.
    Eagles caught six swarms in one day because it was a swarmy day, not because of overbaiting. The pictures show that all were repelled by excess bait.
    Hmmmm...well Frank, you been catching swarms since before I was born, so....

    I suppose you just may be right...

    Are you saying they smell the lure, arrive to the trap, but hang out on the outside because the scent is too strong?

    How odd and thanks for being so frank....
    Last edited by soarwitheagles; 04-16-2018 at 09:31 AM.

  11. #50
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    Jim,

    To everything there is a season...

    Here, the swarms have seasons or spurts. There are times when I will not see a swarm or catch a swarm for weeks. Then, there are spurts when we will bait traps at 10 pm, and every trap will have a swarm by noon the next day. It really is amazing. You will see the scout bees on the traps by 9-10 am, and an hour or two later you will here the large buzzing sound and here they come!

    Another thing that amazes me: I will place several swarm traps on the east side of our property [afternoon sun] and not one swarm for weeks. I placed traps on the west side of the property [morning sun], and every trap has a swarm by noon. Do the same exact thing the very next day, and same exact results and I have no clue why. Also, JRG placed traps in the deep forest here at our place, almost no swarms [he caught one last week after several weeks of no swarms].

    I know very, very little about the science of bee behavior. I am trying to learn more every day, but they keep doing stuff that leaves me scratching my head...

    My only regret is that I did not have 20+ traps to hang when the bees come down our "swarm ally"! Presently we are working on producing 20 more swarm traps to use when the swarms come in like crazy...

    Patience son!

    Thanks.....I'll continue to hang in there. Once again the temps have turn cooler. Right now in the beeyard it's about 59 degrees (F). I have a hunch that once the temps do warm/heat up, we'll see lots of swarms.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    Are you saying they smell the lure, arrive to the trap, but hang out on the outside because the scent is too strong?
    When I was single between marriages, I ended several blind dates within the first half hour because I was asphyxiating on the woman's excess perfume.
    The swarm is attracted by the scent, but they can't breath inside because the smell is so strong. I had three hanging from the bottom two years ago because I used both LGO and SCL. I only rarely re-bait.I caught this one last week six weeks after one dose of lure.


  13. #52
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    When I was single between marriages, I ended several blind dates within the first half hour because I was asphyxiating on the woman's excess perfume.
    The swarm is attracted by the scent, but they can't breath inside because the smell is so strong. I had three hanging from the bottom two years ago because I used both LGO and SCL. I only rarely re-bait.I caught this one last week six weeks after one dose of lure.

    Thank you Frank for the pertinent information!

    Please help us understand how you made those wire springs to hold your lids down! Where did you purchase them and how well do they work?

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    It should be noted however that Ordorous Ollie has a very sensitive nose and doesn’t even want to ride in my truck because of my coconut air freshener. Could he be projecting this malidy on honeybees?

    Could it be that the several blind dates that he so rudely ended had an appropriate amount of fragrance and it was just him?

    I have a feeling those blind dates were literally blind!!!
    Last edited by Charlie B; 04-19-2018 at 10:39 AM.
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    Hmmmm...well Frank, you been catching swarms since before I was born, so....

    I suppose you just may be right...

    Are you saying they smell the lure, arrive to the trap, but hang out on the outside because the scent is too strong?
    Sounds like you could have good success with an excessive amount of lure outside the box with a modest amount of lure inside the box.
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheWaterbug View Post
    Sounds like you could have good success with an excessive amount of lure outside the box with a modest amount of lure inside the box.
    I AM, I am not sure what to believe...trying to accept good advice from beeks that know a whole lot more than I, but dang, can't argue with success!

    I have decided to do an experiment this weekend...

    Here is what I plan on doing:

    1. Set up a few swarm traps with NO NEW LURE.
    2. Set up a few swarm traps with a little bit of lure.
    3. Set up a few swarm traps with massive lure.
    4. JRG is gonna bring a new type of swarm trap and we are gonna try that too.
    5. I will set up nearly all the swarm traps in what we call our "Swarm Alley." Then, we will see which trap does the best.

    Part of me hopes I can flip odfrankie the bird after catching most swarms in the traps with the most lure...but please don't tell him I said so...

    On the other hand, I think it is possible odfrank is right...for he was catching swarms when I was still a little polliwog swimming in my dad's reproductive system...

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    soar,

    I have out 7 traps right now. I took one that I pass by every weekday and attached an open baggie with lure to the strap holding the box. The baggie contains a rag infused with two pumps of Swarm Commander, and 5 drops of LGO.
    No scouts yet.

    I am thinking of setting up a second trap the same way.

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    I AM, I am not sure what to believe...

    Part of me hopes I can flip odfrankie the bird after catching most swarms in the traps with the most lure...but please don't tell him I said so.....
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    I found too much drives them off. If you feel the need to use extra swarm lure put it on the outside of the trap. Put four drops or so inside and six or so outside.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Odorous Ollie and I are in competition once again in a bee barren Redwood forest. More scouts on his than mine last time I checked. His is the goofy looking sliver spray painted nuc on the left.

    98792947-82E9-43B4-B576-5E752E91DD92.jpg
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Swarm Trap Design , Placement , Baiting , everything discussed

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheWaterbug View Post
    Sounds like you could have good success with an excessive amount of lure outside the box with a modest amount of lure inside the box.
    So I'm trying this now. I shook the box out at my bee yard and left the site vacant for a few days to get rid of all the stragglers, but now the trap is reset:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIV...y2qpRhiMg/live

    I put 2 drops inside the box and 2 drops on cotton balls inside a closed ziploc a month ago, and I didn't refresh that this morning.

    But I did sprinkle 8-10 drops outside the box, and i had scouts within an hour of doing that. It's overcast today, but it should be nice and sunny the next two days. Watch that camera!
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

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