treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Nhaupt2
    Gww, I'm sure they don't, but when diarrhea hits the farm they don't sit back and say they will hope for diarrhea resistant hogs to emerge from the ashes either.
    But they might if they only got 40 dollars for the pig at market and the treatment was 50 dollars. They might just get more hogs to make up for the losses. The point is that it will be a finacial reason that they keep the pigs and thier decisions will be based on finacial return and not that it is cruel or not. If a new pig comes out that is less suceptable to diarrhea they may start raising them. I see your point on taking care of your stock but if a guy is making money with bees and a few hives die or he decides it is worth it to do counts every month and treat four times a year, he gets to be the one to add the cost to bennifit and cruelty is not the deciding factor. In most agroculture, it is money made that is the deciding factor of success or failure. There are many "cruel" things in big ag because we find value in certain animals and plants.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Treat them to keep them healthy. Way to many examples of mites vectoring virus that leads to colony collapse.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Charlestonbees
    Since I started treating Four years ago Iíve never lost over 20%. I am shooting to get to 5% mortality or less. Oh and the same locations that made 60 lbs of honey now have several hives that are able to make 100lbs.
    I am not questioning your experiances at all. I just wanted to ask if you atribute some of the improvement in prodution to having more drawn comb and learning minipulations better.

    You should be proud of you improvement and I only ask cause I am in a 50 lbs state wide average per hive area.

    I believe member danial d had simular results when he started treating and started using foundation after 4 years of tf beekeeping. I am not talking for him and hope I have this right but am always curious of cause and effect.
    Thanks
    gww
    zone 5b

  5. #24
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Charlestonbees
    Since I started treating Four years ago Iíve never lost over 20%. I am shooting to get to 5% mortality or less. Oh and the same locations that made 60 lbs of honey now have several hives that are able to make 100lbs.
    I am not questioning your experiances at all. I just wanted to ask if you atribute some of the improvement in prodution to having more drawn comb and learning minipulations better.

    You should be proud of you improvement and I only ask cause I am in a 50 lbs state wide average per hive area.

    I believe member danial d had simular results when he started treating and started using foundation after 4 years of tf beekeeping. I am not talking for him and hope I have this right but am always curious of cause and effect.
    Thanks
    gww
    Gww, yes. I should hope I continue to learn and get better. Certainly my timing with things, manipulations, I can control, and drawn comb helps tremendously. Still growing so I donít have all I need. Also havenít been keeping bees long enough to have consistent experience with all sorts of weather patterns affecting honey crop. I also FIRMLY believe in my Queen stock. Ian Steppler has a talk about his queen rearing. He doesnít discredit and major commercial queen breeder but found something happening between their door and his hives. Thatís my experience as well. I had queens that were good better and best. Few poor. Well I got with a guy who keeps about 200 production hives. He got back into bees 8-10years ago something like that. He caught 20 swarms in a Tupelo swamp and chose the best queen to graft from the next year. Thatís where my stock comes from. His queens just worked better for me and stood up well against treatments. I requeened everything I have in August 2017. I will be grafting this year for the first time and will try to keep this stock. They are 5th generation now and have always been open mated. We will see how long they work for me. I did have multiple 4x4x4 nucs come out of winter last year booming. Put them in full size hives, pulled 4 frame splits off them March 17, they made ab 100lbs honey pulled July 4 each drawing all foundation in supers, pulled 3 frame splits out July 30 to make up nucs and all overwtinered. I tried to push them as hard as I could to make honey and increase. Back on topic, all I was saying is I firmly believe treated and healthy bees that have correct protein and sugar intake will make you more honey. How much more I canít say.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Long term, the development of a bee that can co-exist and thrive in the presence of Varroa is most likely the only hope.

    In the meantime, I have realized that my operation is too small, and area Varroa too strong for me to participate in breeding or finding such a bee. i have purchased as much stock as I am going to that promised to be TF Survivor stock. The short response - not in my area. I am not interested in doing things like brood breaks. My season is so short I can't afford them.

    While I hope progress is being made on the TF Front, for the time being I treat. My concession to ideology is that I don't use the so called "hard" chemicals.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Charlestonbees
    Thanks for the responce.
    gww
    zone 5b

  8. #27
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    I did some experimenting last season with a few hives that were well populated up late winter and ended up with a spring mite load. Not enough to take them out, but enough they didn't progress later in spring as the other hives were.

    In order to get my half sized deep drawn frames filled, I set them on top these hives and fed. A few days after the bees occupied the frames I caught the queen and isolated her to those mini frames with an excluder, so they would get worked and laid up as fast as possible. I left them that way longer than was necessary due to bad weather, until all the brood in the boxes below (2 deeps) had emerged.


    I then removed the top box with the mini frames, now filled and the majority of them capped, distributed them to mating nucs. When I came across the established queen, returned her to the old hive- bottom 2 deeps that were full of bees, but now totally broodless. Not only broodless, but due to the removal of most of the mites in the capped mini frames, quite clean from what I could tell. Had I been thinking, I would have done an alcohol wash at that time for some actual numbers.

    Although it was not planned, I saw the potential for an experiment due to the removal delay and resulting conditions of the mite occupied mini frames & broodless colony below.

    The hive settled back into a routine and exploded with solid brood patterns, unlike the quality they had come out of winter with. It was pretty impressive. Now a queens given empty drawn comb to lay up is like a blank slate and she will typically have better patterns just because of that. But were the patterns better as well because of the reduced number of mites?

    Now, most of the mites were trapped under the capped brood I just removed, I made up the mating nucs and gave them a ripe queen cell. No treatments were given. I kept track of their progress.
    It was dismal to say the least. It was a great test. I had more failed returns and absconding than I have ever had with those mating nucs. I've run hundreds of queens through mating nucs, so I have a very good perspective on what is normal.

    The problem is, a queen cell near emergence can have a bit of overlap of old capped brood and new brood just capped, never truly having a full brood break when bees with good hygienic ability can have the chance to clean themselves up. If they get a break when there is only open brood & eggs, the 'brood break' at least is not one of any length. Especially true if they get mated and start laying quickly as I see early spring.

    I suffered with spotty patterns and failures for a while, resisting treating to see what happened. One by one they would have a failed return and make their own queen, invoke a lengthy brood break. The effects were amazing. Solid patterns, content little colonies, efficient feed collection and storage, etc.

    One way to compromise to get better results (Other than letting a tiny colony make their own queen with limited resources) would be to install a grafted queen cell in those mating nucs that was only about 48 hours old, instead of one of eminent emergence stage. Filled with royal jelly and well started, all the mating nuc has to do is keep it warm and cap it. Effectively cleaning up the mites without chemicals in both the parent hive and each nuc.

    That's great, unless you are needing those new crop queens early.
    P5100100.jpg

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    effefeef.jpg

    But it does work.
    It takes work, timing & bees that will cooperate. And it would not be everlasting, just a seasonal nip in the endless fight to suppress an opportunistic pest. And if used in combination with a treatment during the broodless period, the treatments would be very effective and could be used with much less lengthy exposures.

    Using overwintered mating nucs with late summer mated queens helps for your early spring needs, using both methods for providing spring queens are an option for control without chemical treatments and could sustain a smaller operation. But wouldn't be applicable for those needing quick production for early sales of any volume.

    I have done walk away nucs (full sized deep frames) in past and really dislike them. The colony is brought to the brink of failure with an extremely small window to intervene if there is a failed return. Sure it cleans them up, but in my opinion it is a risk of resources and leaves them in a weakened state. But in mating nucs, it is different. Less risky because the size of the colony is tiny. It is not meant to grow to production or overwintering strength in a single season. But it will delay your first round of mated queens by a couple weeks.


    So if you run mating nucs and you would like to improve your mated return %, consider the information above. Remember your mating nucs last season that reliably produced round after round of mated queens? Remember those mating nucs that didn't? Ever wonder what the difference was?

    Have a quad that reliably produced mated queens out of 3 sections, while that 4th section was a dud most of the season? Mites will migrate to and colonize the weakest section where there is less pressure from bees. THAT was likely the dud. Maybe not just bad luck with returns or orientation difficulties in a quad unit, it may have been the most hostile environment and stressed colony that caused the higher percentage of return failures.

    This may be old news to the more experiences beekeepers, but for me, it was a bit of an eye opener.

    ( Just for the record, when I talk about treating, I am only talking about treating for mites. I don't use any antibiotics or meds like Fumagillin. Being fairly secluded, not migratory and never bring bees in from other apiaries, I don't have health issues that warrant their use)
    Last edited by Lauri; 01-15-2018 at 02:40 PM.
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Here's one I messed up the newly drawn cup, but you see the interior development.

    P5310226.jpg

    I wanted to tell this story FYI. But also so you know, although I treat for mites not only to protect my investments but to appeal to my need for what I consider competent animal husbandry, I still work towards the need for less treatments and less potentially residual toxic exposures. I am more into the science end of beekeeping so experiments keep it interesting.

    As I say, if you took the use of virgin queens away from me, I'd have to change up my whole program and use treatments much more than I currently do to get the same result.

    But Virgin queen use is sustainable.

    Unfortunately, many beekeepers are afraid of using them.

    It's not likely mites will evolve fast enough to become immune to the effects of a good brood break, but they eventually do become resistant to mite treatments of the chemical kind, especially if overused and not rotated with other forms of management. Using treatments along with brood breaks is well known to be very effective. The trick is to invoke a brood break during the season without sacrificing the colonies performance and production. And not so labor intensive it is not practical.

    My quest for alternative mite management is in my realization If I don't get something sustainable figured out, I am setting myself up for eventual failure if the treatments I rely on eventually become no longer as effective or no longer available.

    Whether you treat right now or not, every beekeeper should have a plan for the future if they want to continue with any kind of success.

    A couple of my favorite quotes : "If you wait to prepare until there is a problem , it is usually too late"
    & "Over prepare, then go with the flow"

    What would you do if approved mite treatments you rely on were pulled from the market or were so expensive they were cost prohibitive?
    Didn't that happen to the commercial guys around 2012 when they regulated/ banned Amitraz from off label use? As I recall, there was some severe scrambling and losses for a while.
    Last edited by Lauri; 01-15-2018 at 09:32 AM.
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

  10. #29
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Charlestonbees


    I believe member danial d had simular results when he started treating and started using foundation after 4 years of tf beekeeping. I am not talking for him and hope I have this right but am always curious of cause and effect.
    Thanks
    gww
    Gww at this point i am assuming the foundation was the cause of my big increase of honey harvest. I did treat some hives last year one session in the fall, and did the same this year. My best colony this year was a swarm capture last year that I put into a hive and did nothing. I didn't feed it, treat it, or any special winterizing. It came out of winter and powered up hard, producing about 200 lbs. I am fairly sure it came from a friend's colony that's in a hive that never got treated for years. I have no idea if it's the same colony all that time. It's unlikely. I started this round of new colonies from one swarm capture in September of 2014. With splitting and 2 other swarm captures in 15, I am at 24 colonies. I expect losses from a couple that have been weak and/or insufficient winter prep by spring, but hope it's not too rough a loss. My OVA treatments were minimal and what I read, I should have hard losses all the time. I lost 2 overall so far, one in the late fall of 16 and a freeze out last spring when brood up time was hit with about 7į one night. The fall loss was, I found the colony dwindled with a supersedure cell opened up and a small virgin looking queen.
    Last fall I spot checked some established colonies that have had since '15 and found less than 1% mites with alcohol wash but treated the older ones anyway. We will see what springtime being a. This year I felt overloaded and not too concerned if I have some losses. Last week's warm spell saw most of them with activity or buzzing inside, so I expect some bees in the spring and plan to make some nucs to sell instead of piles of honey.

  11. #30
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    I had supper with Gerry and Christine Rozema, Irene and Randy Oliver at the BCHPA this past October. Randy had some extremely interesting results come out his early operational mite sample trial. His only criteria was mite suppression. He was not looking for function.
    There were hives within his operation (1000 plus hives) which showed impressive mite suppression ďabilityĒ , then others which fell apart completely, those of which heíd identified, bombed with Formic and requeened.

    I do believe an open mind is key...stretching mine ever so slowly. A plan slowly develops

  12. #31
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Danial D
    What you do and your history always interest me expesially cause you are in the same state and so even though not that close to me, I feel it is closer climate wise then some. I kinda threw you under the bus here to show that even though I do what I do, I am willing to reconize how stuff works for others. I hope I was paying attention enough to not throw out untrue things and if I ever do, I expect to be called on it. I like knowing others experiances cause in my newness, it gives me things to think about and try for myself.

    I am glad you posted here with the whole story. I know I am new but have not lost a hive yet but then again, it aint spring yet either. Next year will be my third summer with bees so that poeple reading what I write can know my newness.

    Cheers
    gww
    Ps lauri, I tried your flyback split from a differrent thread this year but had to do it with a queen cell cause I could not find the old queen and the hive may have already swarmed. It was my favorite split out of the few I tried.
    zone 5b

  13. #32
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    gww, I didn't think you were throwing me under the bus or saying anything that was not correct. I am glad you are interested in what's going on with my colonies, as I like to hear what's up with you. I haven't been active on the forums much lately, as I haven't had much interest in doing so. I would say we are very much in a similar climate, etc. I do think we are in a zone where there are feral bee colonies that can resist mite loads for a time. Spring will tell more of the story. My best queen made new queens for several more colonies, and none of them have been treated, to keep that line untreated and see what happens. They all seemed to go into winter very good like the original colony did last year. A blunder of mine lost the original queen though. I never lost a queen to silliness on my part till that one. When I write about losses, I didn't include failed queening of nucs that had to be combined with another colony, just losses due to die outs.

    Last winter I had some colonies that I was sure wouldn't make it till spring, and they are still kicking, maybe. I actually split off the queens of some to add a different queen line to it, but still kept the old queen split and they built up enough to winter this year, maybe. My problem this last summer was that I felt over extended and lost interest in pushing any farther with expanding, plus other issues I needed to tend to kept me from working them as I should have. I don't see that I want to go past what can fit on my property anymore, so this spring may have a sell off of nucs or just hold colony numbers. Of course, that might make a lot more 5 gallon buckets of honey that I am not doing a good job of selling so far.

  14. #33
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    If beekeepers were forced(maby by cousmer pressure or honey testing) to follow pesticide lables we would see a lot more instrest in resistant stock.

    I say resistant stock as there allways will be a time and place when domestic live stock needs a helping hand or you face losses , and if you don't contoral a sick head of live stock you endanger the other wise healthy yard if the pathogen spreads. Basic animal husbandry, to suggest a some one should just let livestock die for the lack of a few pennys of prevention only makes sense to a zealot.

    The flip side of continual and constant chemical intervention and off lable use, such as the illegal use of OA with supers on simply because its cheap and easy is also not the way forward. Unless some selection for resistance is made, stock can be made more susceptible .

    Like most things the middle ground is likely the best path forward, IPM... and I don't mean sugar dusting as its often equated to in the bee world
    The foundation is resistant stock, 2nd level is management , 3rd is targeted, effective chemical intervention as needed to prevent economic losses
    As a realworld example
    2016 I made up 4 July nucs of sister cells, gave them all a broodless OAD in Nov
    2017 t mite counts taken mounthly, they made till a late Oct broodless TX with the split(s) and drone culling.
    They all were managed a bit differently (one was a fly back, one run for production and swarmed, one was run for production and had the queen pull start of the flow, one was broken up for spring nucs) I want to talk about what showed great results, the fly away/fly back split(learned form a lauri post)
    On 4/7 I took one of the overwintered KTB nucs and move it 10', I pulled an open bar of open brood and the queen from it and placed it in a new nuc in the old location along with 2 bars of drawn comb.This leaves almost all the mites in the old hive. The old nuc in the new location drew cells and was broken up 3 ways mids summer the nucs were split again again giving me a lot of nucs going in to winter.
    The queen right side was allowed to grow to full size, drawing out all that comb and making a harvest of 6 lbs, and I left a lot on the hive to insure it wintered well The other 2 sister nucs that were grown to full size, made 16 or so pounds between them
    now 6-8#s a hive isn't much, but it was a dry year with a VERY poor crop The guy next to me installed 18 packages on drawn comb(he took 100 losses last year) and had drawn supers... he made 6.6lbs per hive, No drawn comb and a KTBH vs langs
    Now mites
    The rolls were (per 300 bees) 6/26=2, 7/27=3, 8/23=2, 10/25 (brood less)=14
    I did a 10/25 roll on neighbors bees to show him how, I kept losing count in the high 40s,
    No drawn comb and a KTBH vs langs I don't think it didn't hurt my honey production by much, I made a lot of nucs, and got by on one chemical TX a year. I suspect my crop would have been much larger if I had done the fly away in a full sized hive in stead of a 9 bar nuc =to 6/7 lang deeps

    Now lets go a little more main stream... Perform the flyaway/flyback split in a lang and stack the hives a sold divider with the queen right on the bottom, hit the queen right side with OAV, come back in 22 days and hit the top box with OAV now thats its brood less. Now you have knocked the mites to almost 0. after the new queen is laying recombine and run for honey...
    your spring mite control and swarm control in one fell swoop, and if you have let the 2nd queen brood up a bit your getting a big population boost(OTS style) for bigger harvest.
    Targeted, effective and productive
    do that to the entire yard and you have put a big dent in the mite landscape.

    We should be looking at best management practices, and they come from bolth sides of the debate.
    We should be looking at the practices of those who have dealt with mite longer, and had miteasides start to fail 1st .

    unless we are migratory keepers we should as a whole look towards locally adapted stock…
    http://www.coloss.org/the-gei-experiment/
    showed when you move stocks, even the famous Avignon TF bes (that haven’t been treated sense what, 94? ) died and about 80days earlier then the local stock of the area.

    If the 2 sides could get behind local stock we could see progress…. The TF crowd would need to see that treating a hive to save it and next year requeening with local stock, or pinching the queen and letting it open mate with local stock is a far superior plan to letting it die and bringing in forren replacements (again, and again), if we have more local bees alive come spring we will have more for sale, breaking the dependence on imported stock, and alowing local stock to take hold

    The hard core treaters will need to see the value in selecting for restiance and that at some point you need to start elimating lines that require contestant chemical matiance and not let them persist in your yard, you do need to cull from time to time.
    Randy Olver said something to the effect 80% of the mites are in 20% of the hives (I don’t rember the exact numbers ) as Ian notes when he finds a “mite candy” hive it gets blasted with formic and requened he dosent fuss aroound w

    baybee’s epic battle comes to mind https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...drop-after-OAV
    Quote Originally Posted by baybee View Post
    Total treatment:
    4 OAVs 5 days apart: Aug 23 - Sept 8;
    full-dose MAQS: Sept 14;
    5 OAVs 5 days apart: Oct 25 - Nov 14;
    full-dose MAQS: Nov 20
    3 OAVs 4 days apart: Dec 28 - Jan 6.
    Does anyone realy, and I mean truly, want to keep bees like this?
    In my opion, when you have a problem hive or set of hives, at some point you need to submit the queen to the Mike Plamer hive tool test, let it go broodless, hammer the mites with a sold targeted TX and put in new gentinicks. In some cases it may cost you some of the honey crop from that hive this season if you have to pull supers early and put them on other hives to finish, while you deal with this, or spending the extra $$ on MAQS vs OA to keep the supers on… but ending that genetic line will pay dividends down the road and if they are that compromised by the mites they are likly not making a great crop to start with

    once you get an areas mite load down, and its resistance up TF becomes easier and less TXs are needed to protect economic performance A win win

    By working together on common ground we would bolth benefit.. but instead we chose to go round and round, a snake eating its own tail in the dark obliviously.

    I realy wish we could all be a little more Hippie….. Interested in community effort and respectful of nature yet “chemistry” is still part of our culture
    Last edited by msl; 01-14-2018 at 09:43 PM.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Danial
    You told me to feed my little bitty warre a pint/quart a day cause you had good luck getting those little ones like that through. Me being lazy like I am, just added a gal on top at one time. I don't know what the future holds but that little cluster in that warre was still alive the last flying day we had after that big cold spell.

    Selling honey (or anything) scares the heck out of me. I don't think I am going to be good at it. You are still working and have more going on then me. I have not wanted to move bees to other places and I am retired and so I feel you on the getting overwhelmed.

    I wish you the best and your advice to me has always been sound advice.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  16. #35

    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Lauri,
    many thanks. Your posts are great learning.

    msl,
    If the 2 sides could get behind local stock we could see progressÖ. The TF crowd would need to see that treating a hive to save it and next year requeening with local stock, or pinching the queen and letting it open mate with local stock is a far superior plan to letting it die and bringing in forren replacements (again, and again), if we have more local bees alive come spring we will have more for sale, breaking the dependence on imported stock, and alowing local stock to take hold

    The hard core treaters will need to see the value in selecting for restiance and that at some point you need to start elimating lines that require contestant chemical matiance and not let them persist in your yard, you do need to cull from time to time.

    I will probably requeen with stock from resistance breeding ( not local) because we have only susceptible stock around which must be treated all the time. I would prefer local.

    I had my first hive dying in spite of treatments ( done by my prof. mentor then) a terrible experience for a newbie. If I had gone tf then I could have blamed myself , but thoughts were : why treat if they die anyway.

    First year tf zero losses. Second year 2/3 losses, but most were queen problems and mistakes I did because of lack of experience.

    I changed my methods and will see what happens now. I believe I have to go for 2 more seasons before being able to blame my losses on the mites and not on my mangements or on environment.

    Some members told me I will need 5 years to evaluate my situation and decide how to go on and about the tf possibilities. Thatīs true.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mdohertyjr View Post
    In my first year, we did not treat. In our second year, we were able to split to 11 hives. Those 11 hives were not treated. Before Thanksgiving all 11 hives crashed and died.

    Crawling bee's, mite droppings, deformed wings, prove that mites killed all 11 hives.

    We now treat.
    More or less my same experience. Starting over come spring with a new resolve to test and treat regularly. It's too expensive for a "hobby" where we lose everything we worked for.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    I treat (about 600 hives).

    In the biennium 2016-2017 less than 2% of my hives perished due to varroa.
    In the 2017/2018 biennium so far 0% mortality due to varroa.

    From what I read in BS some people do not treat because of the aspects related to residues in honey and residues in the wax.

    I am currently more concerned about the chemical residues resulting from the dishwashing where I eat every day. I'm not the only one
    http://readynutrition.com/resources/...omes_03092014/
    https://www.thenakedscientists.com/f...?topic=43392.0
    Last edited by Eduardo Gomes; 01-15-2018 at 04:48 AM.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    The difference between my bees when I had a laissez-faire attitudes towards varroa monitoring and treatment and after I started to take it seriously with alcohol washes and treatments if required is night and day. In my bees, if I can keep varroa below 2-3% the colonies are noticeably more vigorous than those with higher counts.

    I think however there is still a long way to go for beekeepers to understand the importance of monitoring varroa if you treat or not. If you do treat knowing varroa load helps you treat when is needed, if you don't treat varroa counts give a fair indication of how hives are coping.

    It is easy to become enamoured by Internet gurus who claim some magical method of keeping bees with almost no effort, I've fallen for them myself more than once. I'm now much more influenced by members of my bee club who keep bees I would want to keep - strong colonies that over winter and are a pleasure to work. I'm sure we know beekeepers that will tell you how you should do it while have weak, dying bees themselves.

    Seeing is believing.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Craig County, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    109

    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Nice experiments Lauri
    gww Mareks (I can't remember how you spelled it) and yes hog raisers usually cull the young.
    Virgil good good point. If been doing what I (professionally, career not bees) do for 14 years now. At year 2,3,5 and still today I've tried to learn from everyone. Earlier on Mostly from those who have been at it awhile. Then and now (I'm good at what I do, not bragging) I've noticed people who have done this long enough to know what they are doing. And while trying to learn a better way for me, instead I learned they suck and will NEVER be all that good.

    Now to do with bee's. In my early research after getting started I noticed several successful beeks who didn't treat didn't do a whole lot of extra, then Mich B Lazy beekeeping and liked it. Then watched A LOT of beginer classes from various clubs. ALL talked about treating and it HAD to be done every time at X time of year. Holy cow theirs a lot more work. I agree with trying to be treatment free. That being said don't heckle me.

    Also reading GRIT or Mother Earth News about gardening. (this has a some similarities to MBs not treating) It stating that to be rid of a large amount of pest to NOT treat the garden. Keeping certain bugs alive they keep other bugs down. Such as wasp eat lay/eggs in worms and spiders. Certain good mites attack bad mites. And with certain crushing of tomato worms and a few others instead of spraying the whole garden, the dirt daubers (because I Kill the red wasp regardless) will take care of other things such as ear worms. Spiders will take care of other things. Good mites eating bad mites. Could be used in the case of varroa. Maybe.
    I have sprayed a whole pasture because ticks and fleas were so bad in a place I moved into. No problem after one spraying. Bee's made it. I wasn't keeping bee's at the time but they were in my garden and covering my neighbors garden.

    Back to bee's and off topic. Wax moths. Has anyone thought about if a bug zapper could help with wax moths. I know even though some don't realize that they are meant to just lure them away from the front door so they are not flying in the house when you open the door, NOT that they actually kill enough to make a difference. Could that help hives in yard if it's close to your house. Maybe a new forum topic.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    2,943

    Default Re: treating vs. not treating for mites: opinion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    Lauri,
    many thanks. Your posts are great learning.
    Those mating nucs are overwintering right now. (divided deep nucs with a colony on each side-combined with other mating nuc resources late summer/fall for overwintering prep) They received no treatment until late Nov when I did an OAV. Second one in Dec when they were likely broodless. I'll see how they come out of winter.

    PB050128.jpg


    (Photo taken 1-13-18)
    Attachment 37102

    OAV was not legal in my State until last year. I got my Provap in December 2016 and only did one wintertime OAV treatment, late December and My application methods were a little rough until I got the hang of it.


    PB290203.jpg
    This fall and winter I did multiple treatments. I am looking forward to seeing if I come out of winter in better shape. I have not been one to do spring mite treatments, but every season as it progresses I always see a couple that would certainly have benefited from a spring treatment. I'm trying to avoid that by timely and thorough OAV winter treatments.
    Last edited by Lauri; 01-15-2018 at 08:00 AM.
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

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