Best propane fogger for Tactic
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  1. #1
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    Default Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Anyone having good success with fogging Tactic with a propane fogger? How are you keeping it from clogging up? What respirator should you wear?

    Thanks

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  3. #2
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Fogging tactic?? Really??

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Fogging tactic?? Really??
    We know 3 different commercial beekeepers who are doing this. Information about what you think would be much more helpful than sarcasm.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Crabo; 12-16-2017 at 09:46 PM.

  5. #4
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    I don't see sarcasm... I see
    maby you should talk to the 3 you "know"...
    there was chatter about FGMO mixed with Tactic for fogging 10 years ago...it was then
    Last edited by honeyman46408; 12-17-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    The three guys I know have been doing it for mite treatments. As I understand it, it is the same chemical in the apivar strips. If I didn't need advice I wouldn't be asking here. I am the equipment fix it guy for a beekeeper, and I wasn't doing bees 10 years ago.

    I am looking for advice. If we are doing something bad, I would like to know the reasoning behind it so I can make an informed change.

    Thanks,

  7. #6
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    Sandpoint, ID, USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Maybe because it's not an federally approved delivery method for treating mites in the USA...

    If you were outside the USA then i couldn't say but at least you wouldnt fall under the U.S.' tentacles.

  8. #7
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    If it's not on the Tactic label - it is illegal.

    Crazy Roland

  9. #8
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    Macon, GA USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Not only is it not legal, I couldn't imagine anyone crazy enough to try it. Below is from Randy Oliver's website.

    I’ve looked at a number of incidents of amitraz poisoning in humans (typically by either accidental or intentional ingestion of liquid formulations). The agricultural formulations of amitraz are dangerous poisons that beekeepers, should they choose to illegally apply them, would be wise to be very cautious with. Of late I’ve heard of beekeepers fogging amitraz; a California beekeeper who nearly killed himself while doing so is emphatic that this is a very dangerous practice!

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Amitraz inhalation of as little as .3 grams can lead to repiratory arrest. This is not OA where you can get a little sick from inhalation, this can kill you. Sounds like there are a few beeks that are jostling with each other to be first in line for a Darwin Award.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    I hope they have not had children yet.

    Crazy Roland

  12. #11
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    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Crabo View Post
    Anyone having good success with fogging Tactic with a propane fogger? How are you keeping it from clogging up? What respirator should you wear?

    Thanks
    I hope you are hearing the feedback loud and clear

  13. #12
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Crabo View Post
    We know 3 different commercial beekeepers who are doing this. Information about what you think would be much more helpful than sarcasm.

    Thanks
    I can't speak for Michael Palmer, but if I had written what he wrote it would have been from being astounded, not sarcasm. I would think that not only are you bringing up something potentially dangerous but actually an illegal use of a pesticide not labeled for use against Varroa mites.

    If you know three different commercial beekeeping operations that do this, what are they telling you?
    Mark Berninghausen

  14. #13
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    Jul 2013
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    Morro Bay, California, USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Amitraz poisoning--an unusual pesticide poisoning. - PubMed - NCBI.jpg

    I am attaching an image of the abstract, rather than just linking a page.
    Note the -- dangerous dose is 15 ml -- that 3 teaspoons.

    Other medical reports show as little as 5 ml of 12% diluted Amitraz can induce a coma in an adult woman who was poisoned intravenously.
    https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/[email protected]+6939

    Mixing amitraz with alcohol in a fogger is an dangerously stupid stunt.

  15. #14
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    Roanoke, VA, USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    If it doesn't kill anyone or the bees, it will probably escalate mite resistance to Amitraz - so these three are essentially stealing a treatment from the law abiding beekeepers. You should tell them to cease or they will be talking to the EPA.
    8 years, 8 hives

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    What would be the best broodless treatment for mites at this time of year?

  17. #16
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    One method for you to consider in a broodless period is the oxalic acid "dribble" method. Randy Oliver has a number of pages about the dribble method. Here is one of the more recent pages:
    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Depends what the mites on your bees are resistant to. Oxalic acid vapor may be best cos there is little or no mite resistance to it, plus sounds like you have a bent for vaporising things.

    The 3 commercials that are doing this, you sure you have your facts right? If they are, apart to the risk to their own health, I would consider it very bad beekeeping practise from long term effectiveness of amitraz perspective.

    I do know that in some European countries, at a hobbyist level, they vaporise amitraz plus 2 other poisons all mixed together into their hives all at the same time. They do it with a little dish over a candle. Asking for problems long term.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    plus sounds like you have a bent for vaporising things.
    No bent for vaporizing things. Just trying to learn. This method was suggested to us.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by JWChesnut View Post
    Amitraz poisoning--an unusual pesticide poisoning. - PubMed - NCBI.jpg

    I am attaching an image of the abstract, rather than just linking a page.
    Note the -- dangerous dose is 15 ml -- that 3 teaspoons.

    Other medical reports show as little as 5 ml of 12% diluted Amitraz can induce a coma in an adult woman who was poisoned intravenously.
    https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/[email protected]+6939

    Mixing amitraz with alcohol in a fogger is an dangerously stupid stunt.
    Compared to the person mainlining amitraz, the fogger application does not seem so stupid.

    Jean-Marc

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Best propane fogger for Tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Crabo View Post
    Anyone having good success with fogging Tactic with a propane fogger? How are you keeping it from clogging up? What respirator should you wear?

    Thanks
    Kinda jumped all over you here.
    Probably a good idea you asked about this. Might of gotten you in a load of trouble.

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