Purina Hearty Bee Thoughts

[Ian]

Over the years I have wondered why North American (Canadian included) beekeepers are paid less for their honey than beekeepers in any other western country.

Oversupply perhaps? Well if the public don't eat much, there will be oversupply.

For some years there has been negative commentary in the public domain about the activities of commercial beekeepers, sections of the green movement have run a successful campaign to paint modern beekeeping practises as evil, and honey tainted by association. This misinformation campaign, like any good misinformation campaign, includes elements of truth, but they are exaggerated and added to. The misinformation campaign has been targeted at North American beekeepers, and the public in other countries who believe this stuff, generally think it applies only to North America.

Adding blood to bee feed can only in the end, provide fodder to dig this hole deeper, lower public perception of how bees are farmed, and what honey is, even more. But hey, for very little gain, or even no gain, some people want to do it anyway. All I can say is, I just don't get that, but, it's your call. Rather your country, than mine.

We don’t have access to any European markets due to GMO pollen

[Ian]

Dried egg is nothing like chicken blood Ian.

I do agree in regards to animal product vs animal byproduct by definition
But
Animal product is an animal product all the same.

[Oldtimer]

We don’t have access to any European markets due to GMO pollen

But is that not exactly why it's so important to position your own product in a positive light so your own population will buy it?

Put it this way. I don't have figures for Canada. But for the USA there are something around 3 million hives, and 340 million people. Here in NZ we have around 1 million hives and 4 million people. So the USA has 3 times as many hives as we do in NZ, but 85 times as many customers to sell the honey to. It should be a no brainer that in the USA there should be a massive undersupply of honey and good prices being paid for it. But there isn't, and that's about public perception. They are not buying enough.

There's other factors like cheap Chinese imports, but again, that's about public perception. The public should percieve genuine USA produced honey as a good, pure and wholesome product as against dodgy imports. But doesn't seem like they do, and there are reasons for that. And throwing blood based bee feed into the mix sure aint going to help.

Just saying this stuff cos it's how I see things from looking in from the outside. And I'd like to see you guys being paid what you deserve, at the moment you are not. But end of day not really my problem, I admit that. But certainly will be if Purina attempt to bring their blood based bee feed here to my neck of the woods. If it comes here and is used I can guarantee it will damage our brand and eventually affect what beekeepers here are getting paid.

[JWPalmer]

Pretty sure they didn't throw it away. Every waste product from the processing plant is repurposed into pet food, livestock feed and fertilizer. If the tag says beef or chicken by-products it's rendered blood meal or feather meal.

You are right on the money there. The blood, guts, feathers, etc. from processing chickens are dried, ground up, and turned into...chicken food. And to paraphrase Oprah, you thought they ate corn. Protein is protein, whether the source is animal or vegetable the structure of the various amino acids is the same. We just need to get past the YUCK factor.

[Ian]

OT I don’t agree at all. We sell our honey and it’s consumed as “natures product” , because it is. Consumers see it that way. We have a very good relay with our consumer.
The distinction between Argentina honey and Canadian doesn’t translate in many consumers eyes, labeling for one, but price rules the day over here. Mix Chinese into the batch and THEN we make that connection to the consumers to source their honey locally.
Canada has a very high reputation for quality honey, Japan demands it.
We can’t sell into Europe because if they thing called GMO which (I’ll step aside from this topic) we can do nothing about.
Honey is as close to commodity as the rest are traded. My honey competes on the foreign market. The US China Argentina drives our pricing.

[Oldtimer]

OK, well you are the man on the ground over there, if that's your view, I'll have to accept it.

You are being well paid.

[Cloverdale]

I do agree in regards to animal product vs animal byproduct by definition
But
Animal product is an animal product all the same.

Well, putting aside definitions here for a moment, would you tell your customers that there is chicken blood in your honey bee food? To me and many others, this seems to cross a line....I respect your beekeeping practices and do watch your utube for learning, but this would draw the line for me.

[Ian]

OK, well you are the man on the ground over there, if that's your view, I'll have to accept it.

You are being well paid.

It’s the world commodity gig.
A beekeeper in Ukraine messaged me the other day happy he was able to price $1.5 per kg...same honey as mine.
What ya going to do about it? Ship it all to New Zealand by the sounds of it

[Oldtimer]

Which is why I said Western countries. Of course in countries with low wages and low prices honey will be worth less, it's relative to what people can pay, and local beekeepers will accept. But also realise that NZ competes in the same world market with Ukraine.

I think Ian has the smarts to know where NZ is, he was refering to NZ selling honey to Europe but Canada cannot because of GM.

Which is an interesting aside. There is pressure here to introduce GM crops, and good arguments for doing so. But we don't, not due to ethical objections, but because it will affect our exports. Some folks don't like GM and will not buy our products if we were growing GM crops here. Thus, we can export honey to Europe, Canada cannot.

A good illustration of the importance of public perception. Chicken blood bee feed is not about how well the bees will do on it, it's about how the customer will percieve it, what sales will be lost.

[Ian]

Well, putting aside definitions here for a moment, would you tell your customers that there is chicken blood in your honey bee food? To me and many others, this seems to cross a line....I respect your beekeeping practices and do watch your utube for learning, but this would draw the line for me.

Ya I agree, I’m no too fussy about that image either, you’d think they would of had some Beekeeper consultation before launch. If you’d notice, I’m merely playing devils advocate.
Ya I know OT is in New Zealand, but those promised prices are within a market place out of my reach throughout Europe.
Though emerging markets in Japan and China has gotten interest in our marketing department. They ship their **** over here and we send our good stuff back. People in China who are becoming wealthier know better than to eat their own food! Lol

[Ian]

OT, wheat farmers are paid on parity as the wheat product we produce. Same everything except for economy.
Ukraine falls victim of circumventing and zero government support in regards to it because they support it!!! (All speculative )

[Oldtimer]

Thing is, wheat is sold basically in a giant world auction, the differences from one wheat to another are factored in and known, any price divergences are quickly narrowed and closed by the market. Honey is a different ball game due to factors that do not apply to wheat.

But anyhow, I'm not an economist. Only joined this thread to throw in my 2 cents against blood based bee feed, I can not see positives but can see potential negatives, I'm against the use of this feed.

[rwurster]

Plus NZ has manuka honey, I mean how do you compete with that? I get great pricing for my honey, maybe Im a good bs-er or just plain sexy, I dont know. I get $20 for a pound and a half (pint) for my specialty honey, $12 for a pound and a half (pint) of my "regular" honey. I get it, I'm in a niche market and not selling on a commercial scale to a wholesaler.

Also if I fed this product to bees its not during a time I'm collecting honey. I think any public misconception about this product can be set straight. As far as European markets and GMO pollen are concerned, I cant buy non-GMO field corn, soybeans, or alfalfa in bulk anymore. Neither can our tenants farming our 200 acres. We personally can't escape that and its something that's out of our control.

I really don't think the low wholesale prices are based on poor public perception of honey here. If we stopped imports the price would blow through the roof. The people I sell to don't know much about honey but have major concerns about CCD , but when they leave there's no doubt in their minds they just bought the best honey north, south, east, or west of the mighty Mississip

Here's the FDA handbook on acceptable levels of rat feces, maggots, insect eggs etc that is in our food:
https://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceReg.../ucm056174.htm

[Oldtimer]

Also if I fed this product to bees its not during a time I'm collecting honey. I think any public misconception about this product can be set straight.

Well, it would appear we will find out. Just glad you are doing the experiment, not me.

I'll be a fly on the wall at your stall Rwuster. - "Yup, sure I feed the bees chicken blood but at only $20 a pint it's premium purest honey, yup there's no blood in it, you can trust me, honest"

[rwurster]

At least you're funny OT

I dont feed pollen patties, but if I did I would tell people that I used Purina pollen patties if asked. I would also point out that a bee has two stomachs, one is used exclusively for nectar

What I wouldnt tell them is how the bees go out at night and drain the neighbor's chickens of blood

[Oldtimer]

Well they do love to drink water off of a cow poop. But there's some things always been that way and cannot be changed, then there's some things we can do something about.

Thanks for taking my last post in good humor .

[Ian]

The cattle industry has learnt a lot when it come to feeding animal byproducts. The issue nearly bankrupted our Canadian cattle industry...and I’d argue has never come back the same way,
However I have mixed with dried egg in my previous batches to glean the fats and vits, my sights have turned onto 2 appealing products FREE OF ANIMAL PRODUCTS, and I will not be looking back.

[rwurster]

Yeah I was going to mention that too but eh, they probably do worse.

[Ian]

...cattle poop is merely water and grass...
old cowboy joke :\

[johnny2]

another on how the public looks at honey, they dont want you to treat for foul brood or mites they want their honey pure. they wont hear you say the treatments are done without honey boxes on. maybe they dont know the operation well enough to understand what that means and maybe they dont listen but at any-rate they dont want treated "honey" they want your bees to die. "I read 1 article once and I dont want it".