Honey House and sumps
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    North Okanagan BC Canada
    Posts
    275

    Default Honey House and sumps

    I am in the process of preparing to build a new dedicated honey house. I bought some equipment this year, and have two thirty frame extractors, I also got a 24 inch deep sump that was installed flush with the floor. I am really not happy with pouring a big depression in the floor to hold the sump as It seems like everything changes over time and those poured concrete holes are hard to move.
    Does any one have a honey house where they surface mounted the sump? Pros and cons? How did you do it.
    Buying new equipment like a wax auger is not possible right now, walls and a roof and a loading dock are more pressing issues right now.
    suggestions?
    If anyone has a really efficient floor layout, a drawing or a picture would be most appreciated.
    thanks
    Bruce

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    First year for using a clarifier as a sump. My operation is a maxant senior and a 20/30 Danant. I had to set the float switch pretty low but work fine once I found the sweet spot. Other wise it would back up into the spinner. Clarifier is sitting about a 1 1/2" inchs off the floor. It was holding maybe 4 5" inchs of honey before it was pump into a settling tank. This whole set up was new to me this year and was very happy with how it work out. Now I need a bigger settling tank.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    34,541

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Give yourself some time and thought and decide where best to cut a hole in the floor and set the sump in the floor. Once you bolt your extractors down you aren't going to want to move them either. So study your layout possibilities and just do it. If you are going to have a drain in the sump tank hole you might want to have the drain empty into the loading dock. Unless you planned on sending it out the side of your building.

    Do you already have a building with a concrete floor already poured? How close to your loading dock will your extractors be? Could the sump sit on the dock floor or on a platform in the corner of the dock? Could you post a drawing of your floor plan?
    Mark Berninghausen

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    9,340

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    One thing to consider, even if you install an in floor sump, in 10 years you can always fill it in when things change to an above floor system.
    Sometimes those infloor systems are the most practical.
    I hate them lol
    Last edited by honeyman46408; 11-03-2017 at 10:54 PM.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    North Okanagan BC Canada
    Posts
    275

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    I was going to convert an existing building for the honey house, but the amount of work it needs has me thinking new from scratch. I am currently looking at a 30 by 40 building with a Gambriole roof, 12 foot walls and a loading dock , My theroy is in slab heat with an extra circuit for the hot room. A hot room about 12 by 15. That would leave me a space about 15 by 28 for extraction, and a long bay 15 by 40 that would be storage.
    I bought all the existing equipment from a gentleman who was retiring and he had everything heated by a single hot water tank and a recirculating pump. But his set up was very labor intensive and awkward to move about .
    I really want to get this as close to perfect as possible.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    If I remember right Householder wish he had gone taller like 16' not much add expenses.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    4,213

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Or go two story with the extractor upstairs, and the tanks down stairs. I have seen pumps fail, but never gravity.

    Crazy Roland

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    34,541

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Quote Originally Posted by ABruce View Post
    I really want to get this as close to perfect as possible.
    Good luck with that.

    Don't sacrifice the good in search of perfection.
    Mark Berninghausen

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    4,213

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Sometimes flexible beets perfect.

    Crazy Roland

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    34,541

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Keep your options as open as possible. Think about how you are going to let out the bees you bring in and how to keep bees out that are trying to get in.
    Mark Berninghausen

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Annapolis Valley, N.S. Canada
    Posts
    310

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Keep your options as open as possible. Think about how you are going to let out the bees you bring in and how to keep bees out that are trying to get in.
    A little off topic, but when I bring supers into my honey house I stack them 9 high put a bee escape on top and then another bee escape upside down over it. After 2 days any bees in the stack are stuck between the 2 escapes and are "liberated" outside. Seems to work well for me.
    As for my sump (36" Dadant), it sits on the floor and works OK for me. I only run 100 colonies though.
    20170712_163855.jpg

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    1,231

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    I poured up my hole and then had a custom heated sump made to fit. It's a 70 gallon, but the pump float is set to start pumping at 50 gallons. Really don't be afraid of putting the hole in. They fill back in easier then they are made.

    If I lived in the hills, I like Roland two story deal, because pumps do fail and most the time when your not watching.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    335

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Our food inspecter takes a dim view of in floor sumps. In time they tell me that any place with them will not get approved.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    orange county, ca
    Posts
    162

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Abruce, what is your plan for wall panels? Are you going with drywall and paint? I am building a new honey house right now as well. I’m looking at FRP panels instead of drywall. The frp panels look a little tricky to glue up.

  16. #15

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    FRP board isn't hard. Notch trowel spread The appropriate glue. Put sheet up and a j roller or the bigger one done. Put the. Connector Strip in and do the next one.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    1,231

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    I looked into FRP when I was building a new honey house. The price and the what if's changed my mind. Corrugated steel work out great on wall and ceilings. If you ever need to change anything in the walls you just unscrew the panels and then put it back when done. Inter corrugated panels are about a 1/3 of the cost of FRP, and they go up faster.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    orange county, ca
    Posts
    162

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Good to know. Did you pass inspection with the corrugated steel? Do you have a picture?

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    North Okanagan BC Canada
    Posts
    275

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    First, thanks to everyone who has contributed, I really appreciate your advice.
    On the sump, DGL1948 what are you using ? I have talked to CFIA and I am told if I seal the concrete and ideally install a drain our inspector can not see an issue. I would still like to find a practical way to not have one.

    On the wall paneling our inspector told me about the metal panels. He told me others he has dealt with found it cost effective and it passes his requirements. I am looking at the West steel wall panels and they are cheaper locally than the FRP panels. I am still looking at construction methods, but considering using SIP panels which is foam covered with OSB on both sides. If I go that route, I can just attach the steel panels direct to it.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    10,924

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Member Ian has a wealth of honey house photos here (including steel panel interior walls and ceiling):
    http://www.stepplerfarms.com/StepplerHoney.html

    (you may have to click the "Honey House Gallery" at that link)
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    335

    Default Re: Honey House and sumps

    Quote Originally Posted by ABruce View Post
    First, thanks to everyone who has contributed, I really appreciate your advice.
    On the sump, DGL1948 what are you using ? I have talked to CFIA and I am told if I seal the concrete and ideally install a drain our inspector can not see an issue. I would still like to find a practical way to not have one.

    On the wall paneling our inspector told me about the metal panels. He told me others he has dealt with found it cost effective and it passes his requirements. I am looking at the West steel wall panels and they are cheaper locally than the FRP panels. I am still looking at construction methods, but considering using SIP panels which is foam covered with OSB on both sides. If I go that route, I can just attach the steel panels direct to it.
    We use the large sump made by Maxant. You just never know what the food inspectors are going to come up with. They seem about as stable as the weather. Our honey house has the metal panels that are corrigated with a white finish. The gap at the bottom of each corrigation is filled with a sloped stirofoam piece. Just make sure it is painted if you want to pass inspection. Our floor is done with an epoxy paint. It seems to be standing up well and is easy to clean. Our inspector had issues with the waste system as well. It had to be a stand alone system and could not be shared with any other building. And god forbid they find any wood in the extracting room.

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