What's up with this site? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by c-bees View Post
    I bet 99% of everybody that's ever come here did it through a search on Google, Yahoo, Dogpile, Bing, or some other search engine. Now the robots file tells every search engine to ignore the forums.
    A Google search is how I found the forum.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Hello everyone,

    So overall what I'm seeing, you guys want the site to be more popular?
    Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't you want the site to be more popular? It seems to me that more beekeepers asking questions and sharing information is a good thing.

  4. #23
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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    There was a time not long ago when Beesource got hacked, and my impression is that said hackers got in through a hole in Wordpress. I also think that hole was "fixed", but an abundance of caution led to the current robots.txt.

    One of Barry's frustrations was the time that forum technical issues (including spam & hackers) took when he wasn't really (and didn't want to be) an IT professional.

    So, considering that VerticalScope has other sites running vBulletin, and presumably has professionals defending their myriad of sites from hackers, it seems to me to be desirable to open /forums to search bots scanning. After all, a robots.txt file doesn't stop a hacker, as contents of robots.txt is only a "request" and is not enforceable against a bot with malicious intent.

    If other VerticalScope sites are scannable by search bots, I see no reason not to allow Beesource.com/forums to also be scanned by the likes of Google, Yahoo, Bing etc.



    FYI I found the comments by Telarin at this page interesting reading:
    http://forum.spamcop.net/topic/9273-...top-spam-bots/
    Granted, its related to email address harvesting, but still ... creative thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grady Stanley View Post
    A Google search is how I found the forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grady Stanley View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't you want the site to be more popular? It seems to me that more beekeepers asking questions and sharing information is a good thing.



    I'm a little confused - some are saying they didn't find this site through the google search as easily as others did. Is the issue now for prospective members to ensure the site's visibility is at the top of the search results?

    Thanks,
    Nate

  5. #24
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    I'm seeing a lot of non-sequitur responses to C-bee's question; it is like people are not reading or understanding what he is talking about. Or maybe they think he has an agenda of some kind. He's not trying to sell us anything; he's legitimately asking why we went from visible on the web to hidden. It is a strange marketing move, but maybe there's some reason for it.

    If I Google "Top Bar Hives" I'll find about 50 YouTube channels, Phillip Chandler's site, some books on Amazon, and maybe a Facebook group. But, 3 months ago, if I Googled the very same thing, I would also have found the Beesource Top Bar forum. I know this because I found Beesource when I googled "Top Bar Hive Plans" one day, and ended up reading the forums for 3 hours. I'm one of the many people who joined Beesource because every time I would Google a question, I would be directed here for an answer. I was coming here nearly every day, and then one day I wanted to ask a question and signed up.

    So, I think it is a good question too. If someone asks about "mite treatment", don't we feel there might be some valuable information buried in our forums addressing that issue?

    For the record, I'm not selling anything either. I also find it odd we are the number 1 source of beekeeping information on the web, but we are now hidden from the web. Those two things don't go together. Imagine if Wikipedia hid their site from search engines... it would be weird, right?

  6. #25
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    Izard County, AR, USA
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarDad View Post
    I also find it odd we are the number 1 source of beekeeping information on the web, but we are now hidden from the web. Those two things don't go together. Imagine if Wikipedia hid their site from search engines... it would be weird, right?

    You haven't seen anything yet. Do you have any idea what happens to sites that Verticalscope takes over? Do a Google search for (a particular four letter word)-Verticalscope. Data breaches, hackings, viruses, just to name a few of the treats lined up for everybody. Look it up for yourself.

    Meanwhile, they are just ruining this site for now. Don't believe me? Ever heard of Alexa? Look what started happening to traffic here in June, when the robots file was sabotaged:

    btthrtbtchboys.jpg

    It's a race to the bottom, boys and girls! How low can we go? See that number in the red rectangle? It says Beesource has dropped more than 56,000 places in the last 90 days.

    Most members here don't actively post for more than a few months, but their place is taken by the new crop of folks continually finding their way here through all of the diligent searches they do online in preparation for their exciting new adventure in beekeeping, just like all of you. That's all going to start grinding to a halt as the natural cycle of turnover stops.

    It takes a while to gradually get dropped from all of the search engines. By the time you notice, and a few of you have started noticing, it's too late.

    A good forum is like an organism. The old guys share with the new guys, a percentage of the newbies age and learn and become vets themselves, taking new crops of neophytes under their wing.....Kind of like a hive.

    Now the supply of new folks finding their way here has dried up drastically. Eventually the experienced posters will drift away, with nobody to share with.....And by then, even if you try to attract the newbies again, there's not many experienced guys around to answer the endless questions.

    The cycle was broken, everybody drifts away.

    I've seen it happen whenever companies like Verticalscope take over once-thriving sites.
    8 years, 30 colonies, no chemical treatments

  7. #26
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    In this day and age, even the most powerful credit reporting agency like Equifax got hacked into. Millions of
    consumer's data got stolen. By the time the situation got discovered, it was already too late. I can see a forum
    like this with all its new and old moderators have to find a way to protect it. As a member of this forum, all I want is
    to learn about beekeeping and to share what I know so far.

    Yes, there is a change here day-by-day ever since the new owner take over. Just take a look of the little new sub-forums that have been added. The new traffic is not as much compare to before. This is due to the changed made here and so is the ranking by google which is based on indexing by traffic. Behind the scene we don't know much of the decision made for a need to change it. I'm sure there is a reason to for security purposes and its long term business survival. We are in a change for both self-protection and the ability to survive at this age. The one who know how to protect and grow will be the winner at the end. For it, maybe a temporary of no growth but the core of the business can be preserved, however fewer new members that signed up. I'm not speaking for the admins here, just what is going on right now and what I've observed so far.

    Maybe one day we can go over this change and bear new leaves afterward when the business environment is not too insecure anymore. For now being able to protect and branch out gradually will be the correct choice made. After all, we are in an uncertain environment both locally and globally. Let's hope that Bee Source can survive this ever changing competitive business environment!
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  8. #27
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    A Russian hacker isn't going to Google "what is a cloake board?" and then steal all our discussions of it. That's what was secured from Google, not our names and street addresses. Read the earlier posts; they are clear about what happened.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Hmmm. I just Googled all sorts of beekeeping terms and there were absolutely no Beesource.com results returned.

    This needs to be corrected asap.
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  10. #29
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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Robots.txt is being corrected to allow forums. Looking at the cutover logs and C-bee's traffic graphics it has been confirmed that the file was set to disallow forums before it was brought on to our servers, the traffic drop visibly starting in July and being cut over to us in August. Why is anyone's guess at this point though if the history of the Wordpress breach mentioned early in this thread hits that point in time then it's likely that it was set to disallow as a kneejerk reaction. You'd have to ask Barry for that though. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll discuss the responses with the other members of the support team with regards to this thread.

    Kyle
    Last edited by Admin; 10-27-2017 at 09:24 AM.

  11. #30
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Thank you. Those last two responses were effective and on-topic. Thanks for looking into it.

  12. #31
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarDad View Post
    Thank you. Those last two responses were effective and on-topic. Thanks for looking into it.
    Yeah, really. This thread was like the Twilight Zone meets Dilbert.
    What a dumpster fire. I've been a trip sitter for people on LSD that were losing their minds but still had a more concrete grasp on reality than the people running this site.

    I read about an SEO (search engine optimization) company that experimented with de-indexing a site until it disappeared from Google, just to see how long it took to regain their place. They are professionals, and even they didn't have the nerve to de-index for more than a couple days, for fear of losing their place permanently.

    This place has been de-indexed from all search engines for over 4 months.

    I would like to say that the site's current owners are aware of the incalculable damage that has been done and not only know exactly how to repair it (if it even can be) but are willing to put the time and effort into doing so.

    I'm glad one mod and a couple others got it, but none of us control the site, so there isn't much we can do........
    8 years, 30 colonies, no chemical treatments

  13. #32
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    sorry c-bees, but from my perspective comments like that last one tend to show that your primary motivation is proving yourself right as opposed to having genuine concern for the well-being of the site.

    this morning's google searches of 'beekeeping forum' and 'beekeeping discussion' resulted in 'beesource' showing up in the #1 position.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #33
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    While Beesource's search ranking IS improving since the robots.txt change was made, we still have a ways to go. For instance, try a search for "cloake board" and see what happens.

    Right now, Beesource doesn't show up until the 2nd from bottom listing on page 3, below listings for much smaller beekeeping forums and miscellaneous club and vendor websites. That is not what I would expect in a "normal" situation.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #34
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Sometimes people tell you you have a problem from concern for you.
    Sometimes people tell you you have a problem for the joy of telling you.
    Most of the time it is some of both.
    The real question is did you gain from it? Then ignore the motivation.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  16. #35
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Square
    sorry c-bees, but from my perspective comments like that last one tend to show that your primary motivation is proving yourself right as opposed to having genuine concern for the well-being of the site.
    Even if this was true it would not take away that maby it was a benefit that it was noticed and so if it helps it does help. I don't know enough to know and when I saw the first comments, I figured that was a heck of a thing to get wound up about. Shows what I know. Nothing wrong with knowing you helped when it is true and regaurdless of motivation, help is help. I still don't know if it is a big thing or not a big thing but nothing wrong with being glad a comment was made if it is a big thing. I am always maby a little proud of myself when I give real help, expecially if it took a little effort cause though maby prideful, I don't personaly have so many good ideals that I can let the ones I do have slip by.

    In the end, if it helps like it is supposed to, I would want the suggestion and would not really care what the motivation was from the giver. It could be both a genuine care for wanting to help and a bit of pride cause you were right but it took a minute for others to see it.

    JMHO
    Cheers
    gww
    PS salty types faster then me.
    zone 5b

  17. #36
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    I will tell you what is sad, The fact that I have to type a thousand word trying to get across something that can be said with very few and maby get the point across half as good. No pride in that. Maby a bit of envy though.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  18. #37
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    I think you said it very well.
    When you go for the cropped version you are swinging for the fences. Make your point and it is crystal clear, miss, and it is a "what the heck is he talking about".
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    sorry c-bees, but from my perspective comments like that last one tend to show that your primary motivation is proving yourself right as opposed to having genuine concern for the well-being of the site.

    this morning's google searches of 'beekeeping forum' and 'beekeeping discussion' resulted in 'beesource' showing up in the #1 position.
    I wish you didn't see things that way, as I have been reading your stuff for years and I thought of you as one of the good ones here. Sorry you don't like my bedside manner. This site is like a lung transplant patient, and you are mad at me for telling you to stop smoking in my hospital. You are mad at the wrong person.

    Let me politely and gently tell you how you are, still, mistaken. (Read this in a soft whispery voice if it helps you control the urge to type up another snarky response.)

    You may recall from earlier in this thread that a Google search for "beekeeping forum," and, as you have discovered, "beekeeping discussion," does, in fact, result in beesource appearing at the top of the results.

    That may be because those words are in the meta tags and meta description of these pages, but I'm sure you can view the source code of this page and see that for yourself. But do you know how many unique visitors per month actually find their way here by searching for those exact two phrases? Less than one half of one percent of the visitors found this site with those two search terms.

    I obviously don't have this particular website in my Google Webmaster dashboard, because I don't own this site, so I can't give you the exact breakdown on the exact search terms that used to keep beesource at the top of all search results, but look at the page source for beesource and see what terms are there. Then actually do Google searches for those terms. You will no longer find this site.

    I don't know how anyone can keep not getting that, and then wonder why I'm irritated and dropping f-bombs. If there was ever a thread that could benefit from the judicious use of a few well placed f-bombs, this one is it. In any case, I'm apparently not allowed to tell the truth about why my posts were really deleted, or why everyone here should be really unhappy about verticalscope being involved with this website.

    In any case, speaking of motivation, most of you mods are more interested in defending the former and current owners of this site that caused all of this to begin with, and sticking up for each other's petty use of the holy ban hammer.

    You and verticalscope deserved to have beesource continue to dissolve right out from under you. Too clueless to know it was even happening, and sniping at me when you still aren't out of the woods.

    Anyway, for everyone else, let's move on and help bring beesource back where all of the years of contributions from beekeepers can hopefully still be found for years to come. Verticalscope either doesn't know what to do or can't be bothered.

    Things that can help bring beesource back up:
    1)post lots of new stuff
    2)link to beesource.com/forums (and specific pages/threads) on your facebook and other social media
    3)you can request that Google re-index beesource.com/forums (and specific pages/threads) here: https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/submit-url

    In the last couple of days I have spent several hours doing #3 above. So, for example, if you copy everything in the browser bar, paste it into the link above, click that you are "not a robot" and submit it, Google will be told to go re-index that page.

    If enough of us provide new content and submit it for re-indexing by Google, we can reverse the damage done, hopefully. There's probably other stuff we can do, even though we don't control the site, but I'm not a professional at this, and probably don't even know what I'm talking about...........
    8 years, 30 colonies, no chemical treatments

  20. #39

    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    I tried to start Beesource with keywords and it showed this text ( translation google translator), it was the tenth answer:
    Block URLs with robots.txt
    Information about the robots.txt file
    NEXT TOPIC: CREATE ROBOTS.TXT FILE
    A robots.txt file is a file in the root directory of your site that specifies the parts of your site that search engine crawlers should not access. The file uses the Robots Exclusion Standard, a protocol with some commands. This specifies the accessibility to your site for individual sections and for different types of Web crawlers, Mobile crawlers as opposed to desktop crawlers.

    What is the robots.txt file used for?
    Non-image files
    For non-image files, that is, web pages, the robots.txt file should only be used to control crawl accesses. This can prevent your server from being overloaded by the Google Crawler or your crawling budget is wasted by crawling unimportant or similar pages on your site. Do not use the robots.txt file to hide your web pages from Google search. Other pages could point to your page. This could index your page and bypass the robots.txt file. If you want to exclude your page from the search results, use a different method than the password protection or noindex tags or statements.

    image files
    The robots.txt file prevents images from appearing in Google search results. However, it does not prevent other pages or users from linking to your image.

    resource files
    You can use the robots.txt file to block resource files, such as unimportant image, script, or image files. Do this if you believe that pages will not be significantly affected if they are loaded without these resources. However, if the absence of these resources causes the Google Crawler site to be more difficult to understand, you should not block it. Otherwise, Google can not easily analyze pages that need these resources.

    Restrictions of robots.txt
    Before you create your robots.txt file, you should know the risks of this URL blocking method. Sometimes, other methods are more appropriate to ensure that your URLs are not found on the Internet.

    The instructions in the robots.txt file do not have to be complied with.
    The statements in robots.txt can not force specific crawler behavior on your site. They serve the crawlers that access your site as guidelines only. The Googlebot and other reputable web crawlers follow the instructions in a robots.txt file, but other crawlers may not. Therefore, if you want to ensure that Web crawlers can not access specific information, you should use other blocking methods, such as password-protected files on your server.
    Different crawlers also interpret syntax differently.
    The directives set in a robots.txt file are respected by reputable web crawlers, but can be interpreted differently by some other crawlers. Be aware of the correct syntax for instructions to various web crawlers, otherwise some of them may not understand all commands.
    The policies in your robots.txt file can not prevent references to your URLs from being used on other sites.
    Although Google does not crawl or index the content blocked by the robots.txt file, it is still possible that unauthorized URLs are found and indexed on other sites on the Internet. As a result, the URL and any other publicly available data, such as the anchor text in links to the site, may appear in the Google search results. You can prevent your URL from appearing in the search results by using other URL blocking methods. This includes, a. password-protected files on your server, or using the "noindex" meta tag or response header.
    i believe this site will go extinct if handled like that. Itīs already diminishing as i see how many people are logged in. Why?

  21. #40
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    Default Re: What's up with this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by c-bees View Post
    I wish you didn't see things that way, as I have been reading your stuff for years...

    Let me politely and gently tell you how you are, still, mistaken.

    thanks for that. you too deserve mention for bringing this issue to the forefront. i'll try to remember and take a shot of anti-snark before posting in the future.

    ... let's move on and help bring beesource back where all of the years of contributions from beekeepers can hopefully still be found for years to come.

    amen.

    if you copy everything in the browser bar, paste it into the link above, click that you are "not a robot" and submit it, Google will be told to go re-index that page.

    If enough of us provide new content and submit it for re-indexing by Google, we can reverse the damage done, hopefully.

    i'll do my share, thanks for the info c-bees. we would love to hear more about your 7 years, 30 colonies, and no chemical treatments. please start a thread if you are so inclined.
    (blue text mine)
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

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