What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives? - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    killeen Tx
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    60

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    just to put things in prospective, there is more oxalic acid in 1 lb of carrots (2.26 grams) then you use to treat a double deep hive. (2 grams).

    https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-a...ed-vegetables/


    Joe

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Weston, ME
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    1,016

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Quote Originally Posted by sr4440 View Post
    just to put things in prospective, there is more oxalic acid in 1 lb of carrots (2.26 grams) then you use to treat a double deep hive. (2 grams).

    https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-a...ed-vegetables/

    Joe
    ---- removed because I didn't get the connection till after re-reading it -----

    Let me just say - there are rules made for safety because - just because it "seems logical" that it would be safe, does not always mean it is safe.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,138

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Mike
    Let me just say - there are rules made for safety because - just because it "seems logical" that it would be safe, does not always mean it is safe.
    Do you think it is not safe or do you think it is not legal?

    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  5. #24
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Weston, ME
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    1,016

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Mike
    Do you think it is not safe or do you think it is not legal?

    Cheers
    gww
    It is illegal. It may be unsafe.
    Since it is illegal, as a Christian I am commanded to submit to the laws.
    If possibly unsafe, again as a Christian I am commanded to do no harm to my neighbor.

    I think people understand that just because a chemical in one setting is harmless - does not mean that same chemical introduced into another setting will remain harmless. Just because exposure may not kill a person - does not mean it is harmless. There are many chemicals that taken in a dose will not produce an noticeable effect - yet over extended exposure will cause great harm.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,138

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Mike
    Olixic is already in honey. If you eat enough honey that the olixic gets you more then it would if you ate carrots, I would think it could cause more problims then it does when used normaly. Like all things, gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins.
    Otherwise, not so much.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Weston, ME
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    1,016

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    Mike
    Olixic is already in honey. If you eat enough honey that the olixic gets you more then it would if you ate carrots, I would think it could cause more problims then it does when used normaly. Like all things, gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins.
    Otherwise, not so much.
    Cheers
    gww
    I wouldn't know about "the seven deadly sins" (sounds a bit odd, lots of Nicene Christian groups have all kinds of made up stuff... all sins are deadly).
    While I know the government is not out to do good, I still assume they have a reason for the rules of oa application. I do not assume it is for no reason.

  8. #27
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Weston, ME
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    1,016

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    ... and just as important - I know that even if they are doing it for "power" over people, *I* will still be the one fined/sentenced for breaking that law if *anything* happens, even if it isn't directly related in some instances.
    Look at the times some business owner or ceo was made an example of because it was politically expedient.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    4,138

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Mike
    while I know the government is not out to do good, I still assume they have a reason for the rules of oa application. I do not assume it is for no reason.
    I agree. It was probly because they were not ask to come up with anything else. It is good standard boilerplate language that is probly on every lable except one approved treatment for bees which was ask for and the people asking provided the info for them to act on.

    How many years and how many ligitamate beekeepers were using olixic prior to someone deciding to ask for it to even be approved. I don't say gov is doing anything good or bad untill they are ask. I am sure they are trying to do good after being ask but they don't go look for questions.

    Even after being ask it could take years. The gov is not the one out there looking for things for bees. It works the other way. Somebody who wants to make money or wants to get aproval does the asking.

    So to your thought on the govs intention. Thier intention is that everything is bad untill somebody proves to them it is good. On food, it is the one place where it is not innocent untill proved guilty but more guilty untill proved innoccent. I don't say this is a bad thing but just that it is a thing. It has zero bearing on wether something is safe or not untill they are ask.

    If they are ask, they answer the question that was ask. It usually cost you money if you are the one asking and wanting to get the right answer. Nobody small scale cares enough to ask that question so they can get an answer.

    I understand you on the wanting to toe the line just because it is the line.

    I on the other hand think the line changes sometimes due to popular support for stuff they know is good and do anyway. I believe more good has come from popular good ideals then only following the guy that had his own reason to ask for something and pay to get an answer.

    Me and you just have a differrent view of how to accomplish good.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  10. #29
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacramento County, CA
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    879

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Wow,

    Lots of great dialogue and awesome input. You guys have given a lot to think about and I thank you for sharing your ideas, concerns and the moral aspects of using OA vapor and Apivar.

    Well, here is what I did:

    I removed all supers with honey and stacked them in our AG building. Some of the honey filled frames were used to increase honey in a couple of hives that appeared a little needy. Next, I installed Apivar strips in ALL colonies. Last, I put away all OA vaporizers for now because....I found one frame that appears to have caught on fire when I was doing my OA vapor treatment! I am NOT joking...3-4 inches of the bottom of the frame showed evidence of a genuine fire...not merely scorched!

    Special note: We live in the ONLY red flag zone in our county and the risk of fire and the consequences of sparking a fire here in a eucalyptus grove is absolutely horrific.

    What concerned me the most was that the frame had obviously caught on fire and I never even realized it...but simply put all our equipment away and walked away after applying the 30 colony treatments...

    To make matters worse, I skeptically mocked a fellow beek that told me I was risking a fire by using an OA vaporizer...

    Dang...and all this AFTER I purchased three OA vaporizers...two of the brand new!

    Perhaps Apivar will become my new best friend...
    Last edited by soarwitheagles; 10-25-2017 at 01:13 PM.

  11. #30
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    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    soar......
    Thanks for the update. Mny don't take the time to give one but I find it is kind of nice to see an outcome once in a while. Hope it all goes well.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  12. #31
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacramento County, CA
    Posts
    879

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    soar......
    Thanks for the update. Mny don't take the time to give one but I find it is kind of nice to see an outcome once in a while. Hope it all goes well.
    Cheers
    gww
    gww and Mike,

    Thanks again for all your posts. I am beginning to rethink how to treat for the dreaded Varroa mite...

    I have had mixed results with the OA vaporization in the past. One year, it proved incredibly effective. Second year, it barely made a dent in the Varroa mites.

    This year, out of 35+ hives, I only had 3 hives that reached critical threshold levels of the Varroa mite. I was way late in treating the hives this year, so we lost all 3 of the hives that had reached critical levels of VM [each of the 3 infected hives was deader than a door-nail and totally robbed out].

    Effectively treating for the Varroa mite at $2.60 per Apivar strip is becoming costly. I am beginning to see that NOT treating for the Varroa mite is MUCH, MUCH, MORE costly!

    I will not allow honey supers to remain on while treating with Apivar. As mentioned before, I have stored quite a few supers filled with frames of honey. I plan on installing frames of honey during the winter time as the need arises.

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    You can oav inside a plexiglass box. Then scooped out the powder to dust your
    bees with. If you can somehow make a large amount of the oa powder after burning then
    you are all set. The apivar will develop resistant to the bees over time. I have no idea of
    how long until one day you've discovered that it doesn't work against the mites anymore. That is why beekeepers use
    a rotation of different treatment regime. For me I continue to move the cap brood mites over and sourcing the tf
    bees.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    2,106

    Default Re: What shall I do with all the honey and how much should I leave in the hives?

    Oh my gosh I've missed this. Thank you GWW
    Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, flood and strange weather. The bees are still alive.

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