Too late to treat? In Michigan
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    grand rapids, michigan
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    546

    Default Too late to treat? In Michigan

    I've been asked to help someone with 2 hives that are package installs from this Spring. He says the bees have done well. I've not seen them. And he has never treated them. Hasn't even done a mite count. I'm thinking it's too late to do much of anything in Michigan. Any advice? Thanks

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Victory Township, Michigan
    Posts
    50

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Probably too late with fall temps. But if you are using an oxalic vaporizer it is cheap enough that you won't be out much anyway. A lot of the hives I have checked lately still have a lot of brood, so more winter bees are on the way.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Northern Il, USA
    Posts
    487

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Any reason not to stick in a few Apivar strips? Even if it's a bit 'too late' I'd think it would do some good.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
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    5,223

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    As long as it’s above 37 degrees, OAV is an option.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
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    2,278

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    check for mites with a count from a sample. the results will likely show treat. treat them now. fall is a good time to treat, maybe the best time to re-treat or first time to treat with counts that are just borderline high.. next year keep track of mites. in the fall oxalic acid is a good choice, see SNL's post above. OAV is fast acting so to get above 37 degrees for a couple of hours should not be a problem in the fall even in northern areas.
    Last edited by mathesonequip; 10-12-2017 at 07:41 AM.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    907

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Why would it be too late to treat unless you are ONLY using temperature sensitive treatment ? OAV, Apivar are better than doing nothing.

    Weather projections for Grand Rapids, MI area show above 50F day time temperatures. FYI.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyNJ View Post
    OAV, Apivar are better than doing nothing.
    True but has likely missed the window for healthy winter bees.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    907

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    True but has likely missed the window for healthy winter bees.
    Agreed but it gives them a chance vs having whatever brooding that goes on from now through march to be infected continuously. All of this is assuming the hive in question is being overrun with mites & virus.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    grand rapids, michigan
    Posts
    546

    Default

    For OAV you need 3 treatments 4 days apart correct?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Victory Township, Michigan
    Posts
    50

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Doing something is better than doing nothing. But you need to be mindful of ambient temperature when using mite treatments. Up north here in Mason county the weather is finally looking like October. That is one reason why it could be too late. The other is the virus load may be too high. But doing nothing could send your bees to your neighbors and killing their bees.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    ann arbor, mi
    Posts
    212

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Im a little confused here. Is there a theory that treating in the fall is too late, I may be missing something being newer, but Im told after supers are off this is the best time to treat using OAV.

    OAV shot before supers on in Spring and OAV 3x 7days treatment in the fall once supers are off. Its worked for me.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,244

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    I have done OAD between Thanksgiving and Christmas the past few years with good success the past few years.

    Tom

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    ann arbor, mi
    Posts
    212

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Quote Originally Posted by TWall View Post
    I have done OAD between Thanksgiving and Christmas the past few years with good success the past few years.

    Tom
    Has this been your ONLY treatment the entire year?

  15. #14

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Quote Originally Posted by beenoob View Post
    Im a little confused here. Is there a theory that treating in the fall is too late,
    The way it works….winter bees have to be especially hardy. They need to remain alive and vigorous for a number of challenging months. The colony reduces brooding in the weeks leading up to colder weather. If those winter bees are parasitized during development they will be less likely to survive the winter. To make matters worse, the nurse bees that nurture them during development must also be especially healthy or they will not attend to them well….and the resulting winter bees will be less likely to survive.
    The theory I subscribe to is that there needs to be at least two cycles of healthy bees before they begin to make winter bees. That means that an end of season EFFECTIVE mite treatment should be completed 60 days before cold weather for the healthiest overwinter bees are faced with cold temperatures.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,244

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Quote Originally Posted by beenoob View Post
    Has this been your ONLY treatment the entire year?
    Yes.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    AUBURN IN.
    Posts
    251

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    if U do OAV
    DAY 1 TREAT
    DAY 7 TREAT
    DAY 14 TREAT ---U have treated 14 day --remember BROOD hatch take 21 days--I would treat one more time --that is if U have cap brood --if they capped brood one day before U treated on day one

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    384

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Capped brood time is 12 days, mites enter the cells about a day before capping, 3 treatments on the 7 day schedule covers it including the additional time if they are raising drones.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
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    2,278

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    if there is little or no brood [fall brood shut-down] then one OAV treatment is plenty. there is some indications that a lot of oxalic acid is not the best for queens under all conditions. i got this from a university researcher. she told me that if mite levels are close to treat / no treat levels, then hold off till fall even with OAV....... if real high treat, but queen performance may be noticed, if the mites are high in early august then panic and treat.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    North Missouri, USA
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    I did a mite count last weekend and two hives had under 10 per sample and one had 20. Should I treat now or wait till there is little to no brood. I'm feeding because two hives were light (the ones with the lower mite counts) and those two oddly have more brood. They are all double deeps--two 8 and one 10. The 10 was really weak and is the result of the leftovers of an absconded hive, an absconded nuc, and one queen-right nuc. The queen laid a STORM in the last few weeks and it looks good--apart from being light on stores.

    I've treated it twice since fall, each about a week apart. Should I do it again, or wait until the queens stop laying?

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    5,223

    Default Re: Too late to treat? In Michigan

    Quote Originally Posted by niki.nicole View Post
    I've treated it twice since fall, each about a week apart. Should I do it again, or wait until the queens stop laying?
    I'd do it now (several times) and again when there is little to no brood.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

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