Splits failing plz help
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  1. #1
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    Jul 2017
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    NW Florida
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    Default Splits failing plz help

    I had two mated queens arrive Thursday. Late the afternoon I pulled a few frames from my main hive and shook bees into two nucs. Friday both nucs got robbed. Early afternoon today (Sat) I replaced a robbed frame with full frame and shook several frames of bees into it. I did this for both. I really want to go into winter with more than one hive. Any suggestions to help me?
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Pleasant Valley, NY
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    Use one entrance and very small for them to defend.

  4. #3
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    Nuc has a 5/8 inch hole as an entrance.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    Make the entrance even smaller, one bee wide.
    Even that might not work because the robber bees know where they are and the nuc colonies are not organized enough to defend themselves.

    Is it possible to move them to another location to build up for 6 or 8 weeks?

  6. #5
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    Jul 2017
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    NW Florida
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    Ok. I hung an empty frame on each landing board. It looks to have decreased the holes to a single bee.

    I can move the nucs to my side yard, but that is the best I can do. I'm thinking about putting out two comb frames that still have honey residue from being spun out. Do you think that will distract them from the nucs?

    The bees are from the same hive, so I don't think the nucs are fighting them off as Intruders. I really need this to work.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    JG, you must get robber screens on these nucs or the queens will be killed. Clyderoad had the best solution, move them somewhere at least 3 miles away. Since that is not an option for you, get some 3/4" x 1-1/2 strips and make a square the same size as your box is wide. Cut up a 2x4 to get the wood if you need to. Cut a 3/8" x 5/8" groove in the top board for an entrance. Cover it on the outside with #8 hardware cloth or even window screen will work. Nail or screw the frame to the nuc so the new entrance is as far from the original entrance as possible.

    Kinda makeshift I know, but you need to get this done by tomorrow morning or kiss the queens goodbye.

    Open feeding with the extracted frames is very short term. The bees will be back to robbing out your nucs within a few hours.

    You are right about the bees not recognizing the robbers as intruders. They smell like the hive they just came from. That goes away in a week or so but by then it will be too late.
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 09-30-2017 at 07:25 PM.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  8. #7
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    Jul 2017
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    NW Florida
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    I moved them to my side yard, about 100' away and out of sight. Right now the entrances are fully blocked. I'm thinking of keeping it shut until late morning in hopes of the bees that are in the nucs getting use to the new nuc. I'm concerned the queen will be killed.

    Do you think the wood blocking the entrance to one bee will be like a screen?
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    Jade
    I have never tried it but you might put some vicks vapor rub around any entrance you have.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  10. #9
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    Gww what does Vicks do?
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  11. #10
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    Feb 2015
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    The bees don't like the smell but the ones that live there put up with it. The ones that don't live there don't have to put up with it. I think it hides the entrance. I did not think of it but have seen it recomended to others and is also one of the things to do on michael bushes web site under things to do for robbing. The best this still seems to be to move them.
    If you try it and it helps which I think it could, give us feed back. If it doesn't work, give feed back. I had a little robbing and just reduced the entrance. If I would have had vicks with out making a special trip to town, I would have tried it. I have a bad attitude myself and figure that if the hive is reduced to one or two bee space and can not defend, I will just lose it. I have some robbing pressure now cause I am feeding the bees are feeling the pressure from each other and so I may be the next post with a dead hive but so far so good.
    I do think it might help though, expecially since you have moved the hive from where it was if it could be done before the bees find it again which will be almost immediatly.
    Good luck
    gww
    zone 5b

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Jospehine County, Oregon
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    you seriously should have waited till spring to split. it's way to late in the year, light hours to short, signals shut down to the bees not brood rearing. you may have hurt your one hive beyond repair now, may even die out over the winter. the robbing is not your bees it's others near by and may gt 100x worse.
    vicks won't stop robbing, and your resources are dwindling now.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbol View Post
    you seriously should have waited till spring to split. it's way to late in the year, light hours to short, signals shut down to the bees not brood rearing. you may have hurt your one hive beyond repair now, may even die out over the winter. the robbing is not your bees it's others near by and may gt 100x worse.
    vicks won't stop robbing, and your resources are dwindling now.
    Keep in mind that all beekeeping is local. Jadeguppy is in Florida. Even here in Virginia the bees are still laying strong. Splits I made three and four weeks ago are wall to wall brood. Temps are still 70s and 80s daytime highs near 90. Jade needs to get the robbing under control if he wants these splits to have a chance.

    It is my understanding that Vicks masks the smell of the honey so the robbers are not drawn to the hive. Never used it myself but if MB recommends it, my guess is that it works.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  14. #13
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    May 2002
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    San Mateo, CA
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    6,739

    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    When you make a split and leave it in the same yard all the foragers return to the original hive. Move splits two miles away.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    NW Florida
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    Thank you jwp. I saw the first goldenrod in bloom yesterday and there are wildflowers all over the place.
    When I added bees yesterday I tried to avoid the foragers. I shook them onto a lid and waited a short bit before shaking them into the hive.
    Unfortunately the wood I placed over the entrances fell off during the night and they started robbing again before I got the Vicks on. When I put the Vicks on they turned into a cloud of confusion. I'm going to try sweet talking family into letting me move the nucs over there.
    Do you think my queens will survive?
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  16. #15
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    Dickson TN
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbol View Post
    you seriously should have waited till spring to split. it's way to late in the year, light hours to short, signals shut down to the bees not brood rearing. you may have hurt your one hive beyond repair now, may even die out over the winter. the robbing is not your bees it's others near by and may gt 100x worse.
    vicks won't stop robbing, and your resources are dwindling now.
    Vicks will stop robbing almost immediately buying time to install a robber screen. Arbol has obviously no experience using Vicks. Get a robber screen on at dusk or after dark.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    jade
    For future referance on getting just nurse bees, go to you tube and look up nurse bee split. I am not saying that is how you should do it, I will let smarter then me tell you that.

    Also if you need to add to the splits, you can shake a frame from a differrent hive on the roof. The nurse bees should climb down and beg themselves in. Use a brood frame cause honey frames will be old bees and do not shake the queen.

    Nurse bees do not make good gaurd bees though.
    Good luck
    gww
    zone 5b

  18. #17
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    Thank you get. I may need to do that.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  19. #18
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    I have reduced the entrance to single bee size and added another glob of Vicks above the hole. Do you think they will be safe?. I built a medium to put on it for a pint size mason jar feeder, but I'm not sure if I should wait to install it. If I move the nucs to my parents house, I can't keep a close eye on it and can't add nurse bees if needed.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  20. #19
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: Splits failing plz help

    jade
    I had always heard that it helps to give them only as much as they can eat over night and put it on near end of day each day. If the bees are not fighting and just letting in the robbers cause they think they belong, who knows if they will make it. I had some pressure this year and am surprized that two of my hives are still alive. I did see the queen still alive in one. Of course the year is not done yet. When I give any advice, keep in mind that I am about as new as you are.
    Good luck
    gww
    zone 5b

  21. #20
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    Since I didn't have mesh and used a wood piece to decrease the entrance, should the nucs have additional ventilation?
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

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