Trying Something Different
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Trying Something Different

    I have been wanting to start using 8 frames in my 10 frame medium honey supers but have been put off by trying to space them properly. I didn't want to use the frame rest spacers because they provide more places for SHB to hide.
    I have been making my own frames lately, so I decided to make the end bars 1 3/4. This cuts my labor by 20% and saves 2 pieces of foundation per super. I am using Acorn waxed foundation so I don't have to drill the holes in the end bars for wires or wire the frames either.

    I have a question about how to begin, though. Should I place these new frames between capped honey frames to ensure they are drawn correctly?

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    Alex001 (640x480).jpg002 (640x480).jpg
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Roxboro, North Carolina
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    155

    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    I use frames from brushy mountain. I use eight frames in ten frame medium supers with 5.1 foundation and have no problems. Using eight frames in ten frame supers I do not have to use a cappings scratcher when harvesting honey. If I have frames with drawn comb I put them in to get the bees in the super faster but you can use all foundation if that is all you have. If you use any frames with drawn comb place them all together side by side. Hope this helps.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    I just use my fingers to space out the frames for 8 frames in a the frame box. Been doing it that way the last two years. And love it if for no other reason the eas of uncapping

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Derry, New Hampshire
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    why not just make one of those pointed spacing tools? New undrawn frames in between 2 drawn or partially drawn ones sometimes are a problem in my hives because the new frame has just a little wax drawn and the other frames invade into that frames space. Taking them out inevitably scratches the capping. I've found putting them where they are currently all capped It is the fastest way to get them drawn.
    Terrence

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    I have always found it to be very risky to place 8 frames with foundation in a 10 frame super, even with the metal frame spacers. Bees will almost always drop two or more combs between the sheets of foundation. I have always started foundation in 9 frames in the 10 frame supers. I always used 8 drawn, or extracted, frames in 10 frame supers. If they drop comb, between the 8 frames, it makes a real mess.

    I agree that using the 8 frames is the way to go. Makes uncapping a snap. But, I have always used drawn comb or extracted comb.

    cchoganjr

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Thank you all for your responses.

    I have about 20 frames of capped honey. I think I will alternate them between the 8 frame foundations in one hive and place all foundation in another to see what happens. I'll keep a closer eye on the all foundation super.

    Thanks again,
    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  8. #7
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    Feb 2010
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    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    AHudd.... I will make a quick prediction.... (Hope I am wrong) ...but... The all foundation 8 frames in a 10 frame super will be a mess.

    The distance between the sheets of foundation is just too great, and they drop comb between them. But give it a try.

    cchoganjr

  9. #8
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    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Cleo, I'm hoping the fall flow is strong enough to get it done. I think you are probably correct, so at the first sign of trouble I will rotate them into and out of some supers with capped honey.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    North Florida
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    325

    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Just my experience but I somehow managed to put only eight frames in one of my ten frame super and they made a big mess of it. These were drawn frames also. I run nine frames in my ten frame supers with no problems. ,,

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mogollon Rim, Arizona 85933
    Posts
    747

    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    I tried this a few years ago and they puffed out the frames so big made bridge comb between frame faces, causing wonky a s s cross combs and messed up my brood boxes so bad, what a waste of time effort resources.

    DON'T DO IT, YOU WILL BE SORRY.

    with a whole season wasted chasing your tail.

    live and learn, do as you wish.
    Last edited by DavidZ; 09-11-2017 at 11:38 AM.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Wayne, WV, USA
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    232

    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Frames (and boxes, and lots of other stuff) are standardized for a reason. The generally accepted technique for moving to 8 frames in a 10 box is to get the comb drawn first.

    I spent a lot of wasted time, energy, and materials the first two years "trying things out". Never again.
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    GSkip, I may shave the frames down to a bit so I can get 9 frames in the boxes in 8 proves to be a problem.

    DavidZ, how did putting 8 frames in honey supers mess up your brood boxes? I sure as heck don' t want that. That would be one bad unforeseen problem.

    JoshuaW, I am only going to try in 2 supers and I think I will put the wide frames between frames of capped honey.

    I have heard in can be done and makes uncapping easier.

    Also, I am close enough that I can check on them often.

    Thanks all,
    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaW View Post
    The generally accepted technique for moving to 8 frames in a 10 box is to get the comb drawn first..
    Exactly.. Anything other than drawn comb or extracted comb, perfectly spaced, during a good comb drawing season, has always resulted in a mess for me. I ran all 8 frame in 10 frame equipment, but, have to have drawn comb or extracted frames and perfectly spaced.

    cchoganjr

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    North Florida
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    325

    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    AHudd what are you trying to achieve by using 8 frames? If it's honey production 9 frames spaced equally in a 10 frame super will make more honey than 10 frames. In my case they connected all the frames together with wax bridges filled with honey but no more than with 9 frames. Just a terrible mess to extract, had to cut all the comb off and crush and strain it.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    Champaign, Illinois
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Quote Originally Posted by AHudd View Post

    I have a question about how to begin, though. Should I place these new frames between capped honey frames to ensure they are drawn correctly?

    001 (640x480).jpg002 (640x480).jpg
    No.
    When you put new foundation between two frames of honey...the bees will draw out the already drawn frames extra fat before they begin to do the new foundation. Put new foundation between two brood frames.
    Internet credibility is an oxymoron

  17. #16
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    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    GSkip, I am trying to make uncapping easier, save time building less frames per honey super, save money on foundation and to prevent Queens from laying in the honey supers. I believe the extra depth will stop her.

    aunt betty, I didn't think the bees would uncap the honey to build them out deeper. If I have to go into the brood nest to get each frame drawn, I won't do it. That would be more trouble than it's worth. Besides, I am using medium supers on dbl deep brood boxes.

    Thanks,
    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    I currently run nine foundationless frames per ten frame super.

    But I start with ten in a box and use as much drawn as is available, placing frames between drawn/capped frames is absolutely the quickest and the best way to get perfect comb for both foundation and foundationless frames. When they are drawn you then can space them out to nine per box, next year I will be trying eight frames per box (all drawn).

    Bee's prefer foundationless and like plastic the least, acorn extra waxed frames are treated like wax foundation which is somewhere between. Even so, if you space undrawn frames too far apart the bees will make foundationless comb in the extra space.

    You could easily make a wooden frame spacer like the one sold here;
    https://www.amazon.com/9-Frame-Space...295Q2XZ2RFXCZH

  19. #18
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    Feb 2010
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    Park City Ky
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    Quote Originally Posted by GSkip View Post
    AHudd what are you trying to achieve by using 8 frames?
    GSkip... There are several reasons to run 8 frames in 10 frame equipment, but, keep in mind the requirements listed above.

    1. 1 less frame to uncapp and spin in each super you harvest.

    2. Bees draw the comb out much farther than with 9 or 10 frames. Makes uncapping a snap.

    3. Rarely have to use a pick or deal with comb not drawn out beyond the top or bottom bars.

    AHud... It will not keep the queen from moving up if she wants to go up there.

    Just a few reasons. I would never run anything but 8 frames as long as you have drawn comb or extracted comb.

    cchoganjr

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Trying Something Different

    This morning while deciding how to proceed I alternated standard and wide frames. The super will hold nine frames in this manner. It will be easy to use capped frames of honey.

    I think I need to make my bottom bars a three eighths wider.

    The flow hive people say the Queen won't lay in the flow frames because the cells are too deep.

    001 (258x216).jpg 002 (640x480).jpg

    The first pic is a spider with a SHB in its mouth. I need an army of those.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

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