My ghetto II station - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I've since change the tip to a narrower and longer tube.
    Without this change the semen cannot go in because the previous tip is too blunt.
    Sorry about the blurry vids. Something to time the co2 with. Might not be interesting to
    you but to the new beekeeper like me it is.
    https://youtu.be/QifBBNon6hs
    https://youtu.be/FyfA_rgCU_o
    https://youtu.be/WZ5bTN2_sow
    https://youtu.be/nEpSd4ytRzI
    frame rate on that usb microscope is horrid. Really should pick up an amscope (~$180) if you plan to do this more than a couple times

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    The videos show her whole abdomen outside of the housing, the end of the housing should be a little smaller and keep most of her abdomen inside it, because her breathing tubes are in the abdomen and you want her breathing the Co2 inside the housing.

    The bubble rate for the Co2 is too high, although I wondered if that was intentional because of the issue with the queens abdomen not being in the housing.

    There's a few issues, but as far as a ghetto inseminator built for almost nothing, you have done well and I'm sure will gradually mess with and improve it.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  4. #23
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    My only question is how do you know II was successful, you said you were going to let her go on a mating flight or she wasn't restricted from doing so after II.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Good observation, OT. Yes, it is intentional on high CO2 otherwise she's breathing too much air. That does not
    affect her waking up after the II procedure. The you tube vid said it does not affect her if OD on the CO2. Put her in with the nurse bees to take care of her right away. I took some short cuts and did not use any attendant bees through out the entire short process. The CO2 is cheap here at $5 dollars for a 5 lbs. cylinder that I cannot even use it that much with only a few II queens. The sales clerk said I have the option to upgrade to 10 lbs. too. Very easy to source it here.
    Learning more facts on you tube vids. An II queen can lay up to 3 year under normal condition. A well taken breeder can lay up to 4 year inside a nuc hive. Already I'm improving the process and doing a little II experiment on the virgin queens. I did 2 consecutive days of II then skip a day. And resume II on the 4th day. If left alone she will be laying on the 5th day. Do you know what I'm trying to accomplish here? By then this queen should be full of semen to last her a life time. If they run out of juice then I will put them inside a booming hive on drone frames over a QE to collect the Cordovan drones. Doesn't matter to me either way. But first to do another II to see if she can lay the normal workers. This I have not try and very curious as j.case said it cannot be done. I can keep on experimenting on the II for as long as there are drones available through the winter. They will make queens when you make them queen less even in Dec. I have 2 normal golden color and one orange/peach color queen to experiment on.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  6. #25
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Good observation, OT. Yes, it is intentional on high CO2 otherwise she's breathing too much air. That does not
    affect her waking up after the II procedure. The you tube vid said it does not affect her if OD on the CO2. Put her in with the nurse bees to take care of her right away. I took some short cuts and did not use any attendant bees through out the entire short process. The CO2 is cheap here at $5 dollars for a 5 lbs. cylinder that I cannot even use it that much with only a few II queens. The sales clerk said I have the option to upgrade to 10 lbs. too. Very easy to source it here.
    Learning more facts on you tube vids. An II queen can lay up to 3 year under normal condition. A well taken breeder can lay up to 4 year inside a nuc hive. Already I'm improving the process and doing a little II experiment on the virgin queens. I did 2 consecutive days of II then skip a day. And resume II on the 4th day. If left alone she will be laying on the 5th day. Do you know what I'm trying to accomplish here? By then this queen should be full of semen to last her a life time. If they run out of juice then I will put them inside a booming hive on drone frames over a QE to collect the Cordovan drones. Doesn't matter to me either way. But first to do another II to see if she can lay the normal workers. This I have not try and very curious as j.case said it cannot be done. I can keep on experimenting on the II for as long as there are drones available through the winter. They will make queens when you make them queen less even in Dec. I have 2 normal golden color and one orange/peach color queen to experiment on.
    CO2 OD will kill her for sure. I've put down animals with co2 before (mice).

    I dont think you need to insemiante her multiple times. I certainly wouldnt inseminate her in a period of time greater than 48hours.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Thanks, because her abdomen is rather long extending out, there will be a mixture of oxygen along
    with the CO2. Maybe this is why she cannot be on OD yet? I can see that after the 2nd II her abdomen is
    2x larger than normal on the 2nd day. I know I'm pushing it a bit with this experiment. This is the only way to find out what is the max and the min of it. Other than the bigger abdomen all queens are are still alive and accepted by the bees.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  8. #27
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by jcase View Post
    Which do you prefer, the cobey or schley? The ones I got from Sue are more consistant than the ones from I got with my schley unit. The schley ones are not perfectly straight.

    On that note, I finally have my tip puller mock up working, waiting for machinist to build the real one for me now. Ended up using 24g nichrome wire, you can get it working with a much lower end power supply that the gauge most people are recommending. My glass sandpaper just arrived yesterday, so I'll probably give it a go at polishing and finishing tips sometime this month.
    I don't have a strong preference either way. The ones from Sue were purchased when I took her class and seem just fine. I bought these in addition to the ones that came with the Schley unit. The other Schley tips I have came with the "Harbo-like" syringe that he sells on his website. These tips are much shorter than those that come with the Schley unit that Sue resells.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  9. #28
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Thanks, as long as they work then it doesn't matter that much. I use a similar one from the
    you tube vid that I made. Mine is not perfect either with a slightly narrower tip and longer body. I know when to
    stop without ending up on the other side of her abdomen though. It is a very delicate process indeed!


    One from you tube:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  10. #29
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    I tried some extra CO2 on the drones waiting for II. They all got frozen given too much of it.
    Without the outside air mixed in they will turn to popsicle inside a small plastic bag. You are correct. Excessive CO2 will
    freeze the queen while she's waiting to be II or is already inside the II tube. Some of these you tube vids. have misleading
    information too. So nothing beats the real hands on experience on the entire II process. I have to better regulate the
    amount given to the queen next time. Don't want a frozen queen afterward! Thanks to OT for his tips and keen observation.
    Hoping that after this last time of II she can wake up and make it through. Three time is just too much for her. I will never do it again as 2 time is definitely enough. Learning my lesson along the way. I have another one going through the CO2 1st time tonight. Will be II-ing on her tomorrow night. Then I will have 3 breeder queens until next Spring time to resume this process. I intend to do more than a few of them when queen rearing time starts again.
    The first II queen is getting fat and laying well. When she is laying, the big fat young nurse bees are all over her to the point of suffocation. These are some of the strongest most prolific queens I've ever seen this late in the season. The extra high protein homemade patty subs not only carry them through our summer dearth but also added some of the fattest QCs ever made. Resulted in some of the hardiest Cordovan queens ever. I'm glad that this II station got done in time otherwise these queens would be wasted on the local carnis drones. Now I have a gadget against these local carnis drones out there. Is this the only way to control the bees genetics in absent of an isolated station? I've also swap the hive position with the most booming hive inside the metal tent today. This will boost up the hive population a bit to better take care of her and the broods. I should know whether or not this is a successful II when I see the cap worker broods in a week. I'm improving on the method and gaining new skills set along the way. All is going well so far!



    1st big fat queen is laying:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  11. #30
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    This little queen experiment is a total failure. The 2nd II queen died sometime last night. Got thrown out
    of the hive today. Now I know what not to do next time. Either 1 or 2 time II and that's it. Whoever want to
    repeat this failed experiment can do so. I for one will not do it again. Maybe the day to laying is too close or there was
    too much CO2 administered this time. Either way I'm still trying to refine my II process with better improvement the
    next time. Got a narrower pull cap. tube to use this time. The 3rd queen is waiting for II later today.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  12. #31
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    This little queen experiment is a total failure. The 2nd II queen died sometime last night. Got thrown out
    of the hive today. Now I know what not to do next time. Either 1 or 2 time II and that's it. Whoever want to
    repeat this failed experiment can do so. I for one will not do it again. Maybe the day to laying is too close or there was
    too much CO2 administered this time. Either way I'm still trying to refine my II process with better improvement the
    next time. Got a narrower pull cap. tube to use this time. The 3rd queen is waiting for II later today.
    You are wrong, it isn't a failure, its called practice and experimentation. You are doing fine. Your queens are only going to store 1ul or so of semen, so a single insemination of 8-12ul is fine. I'd double check your syringe tip. How are you polishing the glass? What kind of end are you putting on the tip? What is your buffer solution makeup?
    Instrumental Insemination & Northern VSH Queens

  13. #32
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    I have gentamicine and saline solution to use 50/50. The tip is small enough to go inside the queen. I have very fine sandpaper and use flame torch to refine the tip down. It is not the tip or solution issue. It is more of my angle to deliver the semen. I'm going to try the 90 degree angle to see if it is better than the 45 degree I've been using. This will be the last queen that I can practice on until next time again. It is a good learning and practice lesson either way. You mean for her entire laying life she can only use 1 ul? That is hard to believe.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  14. #33
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I have gentamicine and saline solution to use 50/50. The tip is small enough to go inside the queen. I have very fine sandpaper and use flame torch to refine the tip down. It is not the tip or solution issue. It is more of my angle to deliver the semen. I'm going to try the 90 degree angle to see if it is better than the 45 degree I've been using. This will be the last queen that I can practice on until next time again. It is a good learning and practice lesson either way. You mean for her entire laying life she can only use 1 ul? That is hard to believe.
    50% gentamicin / saline solution, that cant be right, that would be VERY Expensive, and would kill 100% of the semen. What is the specific gentamicin solution you are using?

    Yes she will only store about 1ul in her spermatheca, for her entire life.
    Instrumental Insemination & Northern VSH Queens

  15. #34
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    I meant a mixture of 50/50 gentamicin/saline solution. Keep in mind I'm only using it for one queen at a time. So a
    few drops are enough to fill up the small syringe. All I know is the package said gentamicine for dogs eye wash. They are not that expensive compare to the Tigent antibiotic I bought earlier but cannot use. Going to donate this bottle to the local vet.
    So I bought 4 small 30 ml bottles and the 100 pack saline disposable single use solution. If the gentamicin does not work then I can just skip it. Using the saline solution is fine too.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  16. #35
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Right but a 50% strength solution of saline would be crazy strong. You want something like 100ml of 0.9 saline to 0.25g of gentamicin. Saying 50/50 doesnt mean anything, as we dont know what your initial gentamicin solition was. You very well could be using a too strong solution, depending on what that starting solution was.

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I meant a mixture of 50/50 gentamicin/saline solution. Keep in mind I'm only using it for one queen at a time. So a
    few drops are enough to fill up the small syringe. All I know is the package said gentamicine for dogs eye wash. They are not that expensive compare to the Tigent antibiotic I bought earlier but cannot use. Going to donate this bottle to the local vet.
    So I bought 4 small 30 ml bottles and the 100 pack saline disposable single use solution. If the gentamicin does not work then I can just skip it. Using the saline solution is fine too.
    Instrumental Insemination & Northern VSH Queens

  17. #36
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    I have never thought of it that way. Maybe 1 drop of gentamicin into the .9 saline solution bottle should be fine then. The package did not say what is the strength of the solution. I also found out that on the 1st queen I did not use the
    antibiotic to II her. She's still laying now. No sign of any supersedure cell so far. Now I'm learning more.
    Last edited by beepro; 09-11-2017 at 03:50 AM.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  18. #37
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I have never thought of it that way. Maybe 1 drop of gentamicin into the .9 saline solution bottle should be fine then. The package did not say what is the strength of the solution. I also found out that on the 1st queen I did not use the
    antiobiotic to II her. She's still laying now. No sign of any supersedure cell so far. Now I'm learning more.
    If you cant get the dosage right, you are better off with none. Antibiotics need to be near spot on, too much is bad, too little is worthless or actually could be bad.
    Instrumental Insemination & Northern VSH Queens

  19. #38
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    This little queen experiment is a total failure. The 2nd II queen died sometime last night. Got thrown out
    of the hive today. Now I know what not to do next time. Either 1 or 2 time II and that's it. Whoever want to
    repeat this failed experiment can do so. I for one will not do it again. Maybe the day to laying is too close or there was
    too much CO2 administered this time. Either way I'm still trying to refine my II process with better improvement the
    next time. Got a narrower pull cap. tube to use this time. The 3rd queen is waiting for II later today.
    How many times did you II this one?

  20. #39
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Will leave off the gentamicin until I can get the dosage right. The 1st II queen without antibiotic is still laying. The
    2nd one died last night after the 3rd time. The 3rd virgin will be II tonight without the antibiotic depending on how it goes.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  21. #40
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    Default Re: My ghetto II station

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I'm going to try the 90 degree angle to see if it is better than the 45 degree I've been using. .
    Angle of the capillary relative to the holder for the queen. IMG_20170822_170107.jpg

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