EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn
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  1. #1
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    The yard sheet says the Nuc has had some problems for a while, on 5/22 it was weak and deemed "queen less" , it was given a frame of brood w/ bees and queen on it from another nuc and location swapped with a strong nuc.
    I was checking yard to day and it looks like the dearth is letting EFB show threw, weak hive, a good amout of eggs in ok patterns, spotty and very little capped brood, yellowed jelly/larva, and some twisted larva.
    I have hurd that one way to deal with it is a shake out, but there wasn't much to save and I didn't want to risk transferring infected nurse bees, I poped the queen in a mating nuc that had failed to take and wraped the hive in plastic to take care of the rest of the bees and avoid robbing, Got home and tossed the gloves (nitrial) and sanistized my tools
    so what do I do with the nuc ? Its a KTBH nuc made of scraps (free) with less then 1/2 hour of sweat equity in it. My gut says its such minimal lost to torch it and the combs, or would melting the wax in a dubble boiler be fine? There is a burn ban right now so I would have to break it up and put it in my chiminea, ok for the wood, but the wax makes big flames !

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  3. #2
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    Feb 2015
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    msl
    Are you talking AFB or EFB?
    zone 5b

  4. #3
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    spotty and very little capped brood, yellowed jelly/larva, and some twisted larva.
    Quote Originally Posted by gww View Post
    msl
    Are you talking AFB or EFB?
    That would be EFB.

    With it being a nuc, and having basically nothing in it, I'd burn it. Why risk spreading it?
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  5. #4
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    Jan 2016
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    Ozark, AL
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Bee View Post
    That would be EFB.

    With it being a nuc, and having basically nothing in it, I'd burn it. Why risk spreading it?
    Agree even if it had cost you something. "When in doubt, toss it out!" You risk one nuc box and it might cost you $100s in other bees and boxes. Your call, of course, but why risk it? Sort of like when I was a teenager and getting ready for a date; asked my Mom; "Does this shirt smell funny or is it okay to wear?" Her answer if you have to ask you already know the answer."

  6. #5
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    We've had one malodorous hive ... slimed by hive beetles. They took over when the bees lost a queen and the population crashed, so something else likely was at work. We got no indications suggesting AFB. On the understanding that bees hate frames that have been slimed, and that there was no functional colony to save, we burned the frames. We cleaned and bleached the hive bodies.

  7. #6

    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    If it really is EFB, no awfull smell, then it is absolutely no use burning. EFB comes and goes. It is depending on in how stressfull situation the bees are. It is also depending on genetic resistance. I would change the queen, maybe with an extra one weeks broodless period for the bees to clean up. It does not make spores.

  8. #7
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    Central Alabama, Shelby County
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn


  9. #8
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    Jan 2016
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    Ozark, AL
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    If it really is EFB, no awfull smell, then it is absolutely no use burning. EFB comes and goes. It does not make spores.
    All true but the big question is the IF. If you/the OP does not know it is not worth the risk, to me.

  10. #9
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    Feb 2015
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    Groundhwg
    Should we also burn chalk brood or bald brood or pms?
    To a point being a rather lazy guy myself, burning is always safe and easy but.....
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    No Burn!!!

    EFB is every bit as deathly as AFB but it can only last 1.5 years in comb. It is also possible to cure a hive with a full treatment. Studies show 21% reoccurrence with OTC and 4% with shook swarm and OTC. You can also sanitize the woodenware with bleach.

    >I was checking yard to day and it looks like the dearth is letting EFB show threw, weak hive, a good amount of eggs in ok patterns, spotty and very little capped brood, yellowed jelly/larva, and some twisted larva.

    Sound like EFB, picture will help. PMS can also look like EFB. Send a sample to the lab to be 100% sure.

    >I have hurd that one way to deal with it is a shake out,

    IMO shaking out by itself will not work, see the study I post yesterday; "Transmission of European foul brood disease by package bees" But shaking out with antibiotics is probably the best way to cure bees of EFB.

    Keep this hive from being robbed, also don't use EOs or any products with EOs they will make it worse.

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...36#post1293636

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...93#post1534593

    USDA Lab to send your sample, it's free;

    http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7458

  12. #11
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    Quote Originally Posted by FlowerPlanter View Post
    No Burn!!!

    Sound like EFB, picture will help. PMS can also look like EFB. Send a sample to the lab to be 100% sure.

    USDA Lab to send your sample, it's free;

    http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7458
    Last I heard, the Beltsville Bee Lab was closed. Did they get straightened out?

    A valuable service, so, of course, not appreciated by the Powers that Be.

  13. #12
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    Mar 2014
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    Red Bud, IL, USA
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    PMS 4 9-7-15.jpg

    Check the local bee supply, around here Rural King and Farm or Tractor Supply can carry the foul brood test kits - $15
    “The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” -George Bernard Shaw

  14. #13
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    Apr 2013
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebee View Post
    Last I heard, the Beltsville Bee Lab was closed. Did they get straightened out?

    A valuable service, so, of course, not appreciated by the Powers that Be.
    Yes it's open now. They really only stayed closed about a month. I got a report back on my AFB after they reopened. It was one of the first tests they ran after getting cranked back up. I had those results nearly 2 months ago.
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  15. #14
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    Aug 2011
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    KC, MO, USA
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    >Last I heard, the Beltsville Bee Lab was closed. Did they get straightened out?

    There was a post about a week ago saying they are open again.

    >Check the local bee supply, around here Rural King and Farm or Tractor Supply can carry the foul brood test kits - $15

    "False negative results can occur. If a test is negative, it may only mean that the sample did not contain the bacterial organism. Very rarely, a false positive may occur. For definitive diagnosis, a sample of comb should be mailed to the Beltsville Bee Lab for lab culture and diagnosis."

  16. #15
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    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
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    Default Re: EFB NUC, to burn or not to burn

    My opinion, in the midst of a summer-long struggle with EFB, I'd burn a single box and the combs & frames in it and be done with it.

    (But I'd want to be sure it was EFB before doing that so either send a samplke to Beltsville or buy a Vita test for it.)

    I'm not burning my own stuff, though, since it's not a matter of just a single box: it's nearly 50 boxes and 450+plus frames, not to mention all my assorted other bee stuff (Snelgroves, bee escapes, inner covers, quilt boxes, shims, bases, tops, slatted racks, follower boards, feeders, nuc boxes, queen castles - you name it.) I just can't afford to replace it all. I bought about 30% new boxes and frames so I can swap out the worst-affected stuff this year. And I will be running my bees on de minimus equipment this winter so I can haul all the rest of my bee-stuff that's off the hives next March down to NJ to get it gamma- irradiated. More than half of my sick colonies are much-reduced in size, anyway, so we'll see how it goes.

    I am just finishing up treating every colony in my yard with oxytet, I'll be completely done by late next week. Then I'll be busy pulling off excess equipment and running it through the freezer to kill any SHB or hive moth grubs and packing it up for storage until March 2018.

    I'm starting to put feeders on all my colonies and hoping that will get them to draw some more fresh combs to supplement the ones I am pulling off the healthy colonies to give the sick ones a boost in stores before winter.

    Nancy

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