Introducing cells or virgins - Page 4
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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Yuba County, California, USA
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    6,546

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    Yes me too, I'm all ears waiting to hear...
    Live real time bee chat, most evenings...
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  3. #62

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    And me too!

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    2,943

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    Well, the emerged virgin in the cell protector with the cell cup install was a failure for me. To be fair, it was very late in the season and was the last batch of cells I had which were a little less in appearance quality than normal.
    I did 10 -12 with the cell protector and 10 direct release as I am accustomed to doing. 8 direct released were successfully accepted, with a return of 5. 100% failure for acceptance with the cell protector method. Upon recheck, 2 -3 days later all virgins with cell protectors were gone and the colony had made queen cells. The candy plug I used was very soft and should have been chewed out in just a couple hours.

    I am wondering if the off-gases from the plastic protector may have played a part, just to grasp at straws here. It was so bad it was almost bazaar.

    Most of them were done with mating nuc sized colonies. All were the same, I removed the existing queen and immediately placed the virgin or cell protector/virgin combo without queenless period.

    It can probably work with a slight tweak in procedure, but direct release is so easy with no fiddling, I'll just stick with that.

    I checked one of my other yards I had 2 double deeps I had placed a marked virgin in a standard transport cage with a less than half full candy tube + a capped cell due to emerge the next day. A few weeks later, I checked and the marked virgin, now mated and laying was heading the hives. While I have poor success with caged virgin install, I have excellent success when it is installed along with a capped queen cell. The marked virgin always comes out the winnner. Seems a waste of a good cell, but it also seems to be part of the successful intro formula.
    Last edited by Lauri; 11-01-2017 at 08:49 AM.
    Lauri Miller.
    Carniolan Hybrids. Glenn, Latshaw & Wild lines.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
    Posts
    943

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    Thanks Lauri, always appreciate new ideas.
    Sorry it didn't work out, just more to think about.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lexington, VA, USA
    Posts
    465

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    That is unfortunate, but as you said if direct release is working no point in reinveting the wheel. Sounds like it must have something to do with pheromones.

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yuba County, California, USA
    Posts
    6,546

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    Yes, thanks for the update Lauri. Using a cell protector or a cage is one more step anyway. It seems it would be easier to just introduce her with her queen cell anyway.

    A lot of information for me in this thread, Thank you everyone who has responded so far.
    Live real time bee chat, most evenings...
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  8. #67
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Port Angeles, WA, USA
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    469

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    This year I allowed 100% of my grafted cells to emerge in my incubator, with the exception of putting two in a mating nuc that already had queens (sigh, my fault) I had a 100% success introducing them. I was allowing them to emerge in the incubator, as I wanted to visually select the ones I wanted to inseminate.

    I put them all in california queen cages, and put them in the nuc for 3 days, then released. No issues at all.
    Instrumental Insemination & Northern VSH Queens

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lexington, VA, USA
    Posts
    465

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    There is an article in the Nov. 2017 issue of Bee Culture that you may want to look at, it is Queen Pheromone by Clarence Collison. I am wondering if it might be helpful to introduce cells with a tube of TMP. I think Mann Lake and Better Bee (and maybe others) carry it. The extra mandibular pheromone might be of help.

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    Quote Originally Posted by jcase View Post
    I had a 100% success introducing them.

    I put them all in california queen cages, and put them in the nuc for 3 days, then released. No issues at all.
    Please share the details of how you achieved 100% success. It's been my experience that the little details matter in these introductions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcase View Post

    I was allowing them to emerge in the incubator, as I wanted to visually select the ones I wanted to inseminate.
    I do it differently. I allow them to emerge in a queen bank with plenty of nurse bees. This way the virgins are immediately cared for the moment they emerge. I emerge up to 15 per queen bank (all emerge in CA mini cages). Further, I find this advantageous because the bees will often "pick" their favorite virgins. I've found that all virgins are not created equal, because the bees definitely have preferences. I take the ones they prefer and inseminate these. I don't select for color or other traits at this stage - just let the bees pick the winners. Not easy to simulate this in a sterile incubator. After insemination, the queens go back into the bank and then get placed in colonies the following day. That next morning is when you really see the differences in the attractiveness of the queens.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  11. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    double post
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  12. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Port Angeles, WA, USA
    Posts
    469

    Default Re: Introducing cells or virgins

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Please share the details of how you achieved 100% success. It's been my experience that the little details matter in these introductions.
    Not much details really. Probably mostly luck, but

    1 frame capped brood, 1 frame of stores, shake a couple frames in. Left locked up with feed for 24ish hours until queen ready. Place virgin queens in cage in nuc, day 3 release. 4 way queen castle, each side painted in different bright colors, with the pattern of my daughter's choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    I do it differently. I allow them to emerge in a queen bank with plenty of nurse bees. This way the virgins are immediately cared for the moment they emerge. I emerge up to 15 per queen bank (all emerge in CA mini cages). Further, I find this advantageous because the bees will often "pick" their favorite virgins. I've found that all virgins are not created equal, because the bees definitely have preferences. I take the ones they prefer and inseminate these. I don't select for color or other traits at this stage - just let the bees pick the winners. Not easy to simulate this in a sterile incubator. After insemination, the queens go back into the bank and then get placed in colonies the following day. That next morning is when you really see the differences in the attractiveness of the queens.
    I did some in a bank this year as well, I noticed no difference. My daughter likes watching them emerge, I've got a camera in the incubator and it is in my office, so I'm able to call her in as soon as they start poking out.

    I introduce my II queens as:

    1 frame feed, 2 frames emerging brood (mediums), who have been hopelessly queenless for 24hour minimum and a push in cage. Add a couple more frames as needed, once I'm happy with them they go to larger colonies.
    Instrumental Insemination & Northern VSH Queens

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