Paint and primer in one
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
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    2,295

    Default Paint and primer in one

    Anybody else have any issues with this paint and primer all in one step? I buy new paint and only white for my hives. Used this last fall on some deeps and had one problem where it lifted and water ran in to I had a huge bubble of water on the front of the hive. Also used on some new moulding that I will be installing outside and had lifting in places on it.
    I used behr from hd. Seems this two in one stuff is all they are selling now. I normally have done the primer and paint without issue. It ain't cheap and I have to go get some more paint so looking for any input.
    Terrence

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Jonestown, Colunbia County,PA
    Posts
    86

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I used it on mine and no problems so far. I did paint the edges of the boxes so water can't get in behind the paint. No problem with them sticking together as long as you let them dry well before stacking.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    488

    Default I don't use it

    I just don't trust it but that could be me turning into an old guy. I was a housepainter at one point and tend to stick with what I know.

    They do sell just paint and just primer but it isn't something they push. I had to do some digging to find their interior stuff that was just paint, Behr I300, for a house project.

    I just painted another batch of boxes a few weeks ago and used oil-based enamel (aka Rustoleum and others). I remember that oil-based paint held up much better to the weather but cleanup was a bugger. One of the reasons for latex popularity is that it cleans up much easier with soap and water. I just loaded some grey RustStop primer, then paint into my cheap HF gun and sprayed it. I think it looks rather nice.

    The HF guns are less than $10 so I think of them as disposable but I do try to use them a few times.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Bucks County PA
    Posts
    370

    Default Re: I don't use it

    I've had no issues with it...I bought a gallon of Behr exterior primer/paint (mid-grade priced) after I exhausted the first quart that I got when Alison got started a year and a half ago, and it's held up very, very well. Our overwintered boxes look "new", outside of hive tool scrapes and a little bee-poop. I bought the 'new' paint because we preferred a particular color to blend in with our landscape and paint from the 'borg was fine for that. (I normally use SW or BM paints for more critical needs)

    As an aside, I do not paint the box edges, however. The bees seal things up pretty good and we don't need any more "stickiness" from blocking. (the tendency of latex paints to stick together)
    Humble assistant to beek Alison as well as family purveyor of luxury Bee condominiums and Paparazzi activities...

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,295

    Default Re: I don't use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    I just don't trust it but that could be me turning into an old guy. I was a housepainter at one point and tend to stick with what I know.

    They do sell just paint and just primer but it isn't something they push. I had to do some digging to find their interior stuff that was just paint, Behr I300, for a house project.

    I just painted another batch of boxes a few weeks ago and used oil-based enamel (aka Rustoleum and others). I remember that oil-based paint held up much better to the weather but cleanup was a bugger. One of the reasons for latex popularity is that it cleans up much easier with soap and water. I just loaded some grey RustStop primer, then paint into my cheap HF gun and sprayed it. I think it looks rather nice.

    The HF guns are less than $10 so I think of them as disposable but I do try to use them a few times.
    i'll have to ask someone else when I go in. the guy I talked to confirmed what I was seeing on the shelf which is just the 2in1 stuff. only had cheapo primer and no paint that I saw. I prefer to paint twice and give 2 coats of primer if needed. saves paint.
    I had an oil project I was doing. picked up some brushes at harbor freight so I didn't have to clean them. 3 bucks I think for a stubby 2inch. awesome. not one bristle came out. just as good as my purdy 20 dollar brushes.
    Terrence

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,295

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hancock View Post
    I used it on mine and no problems so far. I did paint the edges of the boxes so water can't get in behind the paint. No problem with them sticking together as long as you let them dry well before stacking.
    it was very strange and half frozen. the paint had allowed the water in but held it like a balloon. none of the other boxes from that lot had the issue. hoping its the only one
    Terrence

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    6,636

    Default Re: I don't use it

    I buy all our paint at HD. Behr is good stuff but save yourself some money. Prime with a coat of Zinsser and finish up with a couple coats of Lucite semi-gloss. Really pleased with its durability.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
    Posts
    3,642

    Default Re: I don't use it

    2 in 1 paints and even the latex primers work fine with perfect wood conditions. that is hardly the case so they fail. mill glaze has to be removed from the wood, dryness of the wood has to be right, pine can be sappy and that needs to be dealt with.
    Then there is the technique of the applicator, more often than not a thick coat fails. Cure time between coats is important.
    Paint for a long enough time on enough objects and most realize there is a noticeable difference between quality paints and cheap ones, same with brushes.
    Not all claims on the paint can label should be believed, especially the cheap paints.

    Oil primers and paints may be a pain to clean up but they take a licking and are forgiving of technique and the state of the material being painted.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Guilford, CT
    Posts
    325

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I used a Ben Moore version called Aura or something on a house a few years back on trim. Never again it bubbled in several spots and will need to be re done.

    To me the best is oil primer followed by latex top coat. The flexibility of latex helps in our application.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    346

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I have used Behr paint/ primer and it has worked very well. two coats and it is very nice and last for 7 years and going here.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Jonestown, Colunbia County,PA
    Posts
    86

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    +1 on what Clyderoad said about the mill glaze. Paint your boxes like you would your house and you'll get better results. A little prep goes a long way in the longevity of any paint job. Wrap your brushes in plastic wrap and store in a zip-lock baggie between coats and you'll save a lot of clean-up time.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
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    2,295

    Default Re: I don't use it

    Quote Originally Posted by clyderoad View Post
    2 in 1 paints and even the latex primers work fine with perfect wood conditions. that is hardly the case so they fail. mill glaze has to be removed from the wood, dryness of the wood has to be right, pine can be sappy and that needs to be dealt with.
    Then there is the technique of the applicator, more often than not a thick coat fails. Cure time between coats is important.
    Paint for a long enough time on enough objects and most realize there is a noticeable difference between quality paints and cheap ones, same with brushes.
    Not all claims on the paint can label should be believed, especially the cheap paints.

    Oil primers and paints may be a pain to clean up but they take a licking and are forgiving of technique and the state of the material being painted.
    I have never raised the grain before applying finish with the exception of water based finishes. Mill glaze huh? Never run into that before. I'll hit them with some sand before painting
    Terrence

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Jonestown, Colunbia County,PA
    Posts
    86

    Default Re: I don't use it

    Sandpaper - that's the cure for mill glaze. Mill glaze is the term for the smooth, slick, shiny finish on wood. The knives used to process the wood also beat the pores closed and the paint won't soak into the wood. Sanding will open the pores and allow the paint to stick.

  15. #14

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    As a painting contractor I very rarely use self priming paint. The more you ask of the paint the more reasons it has to fail. Plus in the big picture it is cheaper to by a prime and a good top coat.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    3,404

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I'm doing it all wrong I guess. I usually put on 3 coats of exterior latex and call it good. No primer. I put the boxes out in the sun and let them get good and warm, then roll on a coat. The wood usually "sucks" up the first coat really well, then I add another. Sometimes, depending on how long I've had the boxes prior to assembling, the 2nd coat will also obviously soak in some as well, and the 3rd coat seals it off and gives it a shine.
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,150

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I've been using the Behr ultra paint and primer exterior flat. Two coats and done. So far the boxes are holding up real nice but they have only been out in the sun for three months. I look for the little sample jars they sell marked down to $.50. It is enough for the entire single deep, bottom board and top. If I like the color,I can get another mixed for $3.65 and do another deep and two supers. All my hives are different colors. Makes mamma happy.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    York County, VA, USA
    Posts
    503

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    Mis-tinted deck paint, especially oil-base opaque or semi-transparent. The best material I have found recently is Cabot's semi-transparent or opaque material that is oil-base, one-coat, period. The instructions even say take everything else off before using if it's not raw wood, then paint it once, no re-coating. The mis-tinted version was somehow an olive drab that looks absolutely great in my yard. Couldn't find that color in the book or anything like it (mis-tinted severely, apparently) when I bought a full-price gallon to use on a project.

    On a different note, my out-in-the-elements mailbox post is made from a 6x6 treated timber that I rounded up to look like the pillars on our Southern Colonial porch front. I painted it in 2004 with two coats of Olympic oil-based exterior deck primer followed by a coat of paint, and it's still going great. I wish I could still find those Olympic oil-based paints.

    Michael
    "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong." (heard often from the late David Sebree) Still making them, myself

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,295

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    Thanks for all the replies. I'll be shopping for some good ole fashion primer and paint separately. Might have been my prep but I think i'll give a few years for this magic paint to prove itself before I continue with the 2 in 1. Good hints on the planer stuff. I've never noticed that building or using my planer but in retrospect I usually stain things and/or do a final sanding so guess I was opening the pores while I did it.
    Terrence

  20. #19
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Bucks County PA
    Posts
    370

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I sand the exteriors of all the boxes and other woodenware I build "just because", but there is an added benefit with mitigating the "slickness" that pine typically has as mentioned above. Since I don't do "volume", I also fill fastener holes and any minor gaps, etc., prior to paining...it's an anal thing with me, but does help with keeping a nice, even, smooth coat of paint on the boxes.
    Humble assistant to beek Alison as well as family purveyor of luxury Bee condominiums and Paparazzi activities...

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ridgeville, SC, USA
    Posts
    558

    Default Re: Paint and primer in one

    I prime with oil base Zinsser and two coats of latex paint. I get the oops mis tint premium exterior paints. Regardless if paint is regular latex or a paint and primer , I still prime with Zinsser. Full sun , brutal heat and humidity or cold wet and hot and wet it works for me.

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