The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Auburn, WA, USA
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    Default The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    A little background...So my old man used to tend to his fathers bees years ago and is a bit stubborn. This is my first year bee keeping but I have edu8cated myself a lot via youtube.

    So he bought a 2 deep 10 frame hive last week. The first day of bees on the property he added a third box with 10 deep frames. We live at the end of a col de sac with a large green belt to the left side of our property near the bees. We have dozens of acres of clover fields and blackberry bushes near our house. He was told by an old friend that the bees would swarm because they've been in the two deep boxes for awhile. So he went out and bought a queen bee to introduce to this hive that already has a queen a few days after palcing the bees in our yard.

    So couple days go by and he goes ahead with his plan against me pleading with him and telling him hes doing it wrong. He found the queen on a frame placed that frame in a new box with 4 additional frames from the old hive. He replaces those frames with new frames and waits a couple hours to requeen his original box. He places queen (in cage) in the old hive and leaves it alone for two days....

    The next day the new hive with the old queen looks as if they are about to swarm.. The entrance of the hive is full of a circle of bees, the queen is not in this circle but they are not flying to get honey they are just inj a circle flapping their qwings for hours. When the old man gets home from church he sprays water on them and they shoo back into the hive.

    Two days go by and he opens the old hive with the new queen in the cage... Only to find that the netting has been chewed through and after inspection there is no queen to be found..

    What I think happened and if anyone here can help me out if im reading this correctly.

    His friend told him that the hive would want to swarm because room is running out... This is true, except for the fact that my dad added a 10 deep box with frames the next day after placing the hive. The bee's are tricked think that they did swarm and are now back to "grinding" mode and readyt to work. What he did when he took the queen out was freak out the hive, and only two hours time I doubt was enough to let the hive release pheromones to let everyone know they need a new queen.. and even at this point they would make an emergency queen and not want to accept the queen introduced so quickly. They also killed the queen introduced to them because she smells like a qqueen but not their queen. They feel as if she attacked and killed there queen or just made a democratic decision to kill her and start with an emergency queen.... The new hive with the old queen is in freak out mode now that they were so small and secluded, they wanted to swarm back to their original hive because they felt like they were squished together.

    Any input would be so appreciated!!

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Murphy, TX
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    429

    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    I think it is luck. Your old man did not mess up. Couple hours are enough for bees to realize that they are queenless.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ridgeville, SC, USA
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    556

    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Read Harry Vanderpool queen introduction under queen and bee breeding heading on this site. You got your hands full with your father.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Marshall county, AL
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Are they his bees, or your bees?
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    DFW area, TX, USA
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    1,931

    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pjigar View Post
    I think it is luck. Your old man did not mess up. Couple hours are enough for bees to realize that they are queenless.
    I agree with pjgar that, on the whole, your father has acted appropriately to split and install a queen in the (new) queenless hive. Bees miss the queen's pheromones in a matter of minutes and know they are queenless. You (Paul) have some misconceptions about bees expressed in your OP. Queen introductions like you described are not 100% successful...More like 80-90% successful. You may be ahead reading a bee a book instead of watching youtube...there is some bad advice on youtube.
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  7. #6
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    Apr 2013
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lburou View Post
    there is some bad advice on youtube.
    Have you noticed how shiny and white the bee jackets are on most of the youtubers giving out advice?

    "This is my first inspection, but one thing I've already noticed it that you should ALWAYS....."
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  8. #7
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    May 2013
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    Shreveport, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    1. There are lots of ways to raise bees; what your father has done is one of them.
    2. The split should take. It's a good way to make increase.
    3. There is a learning curve with keeping bees; mistakes are part of becoming a good beekeeper. Learning to relax is part of becoming a better beekeeper.
    4. Even if the new queen was balled, there is likely at least one frame of eggs or very young larvae from which the original colony can make a new, new queen. If the new, new queen doesn't get mated, in five or six weeks or so you could recombine the hives.
    5. Your feelings about all this are pretty natural.
    6. Bees come and go. I miss my father. I would encourage you to cherish every mistake and every wise step your father makes.
    David. The way you want to keep bees is most likely at least as good as any way that I could suggest. Probably better.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Auburn, WA, USA
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    They know in matter of minutes yes, but aren't there bee's that are out scavenging that wouldn't know that the old queen is gone? Esspcially since the spilt was done at 2pm on a 85 degree day...

    I am reading a couple of bee books, reading a lot online (obviously where I read the same thing over and over I put more credibility towards), and if I see a lot of youtubers saying the exact same thing then I put more credibility towards that as well. I am not taking things from one source, I was stating what the majority of 20+ youtube videos and tons of articles have pointed to. I've been doing research on proper beekeeping since August of last year.

  10. #9
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    May 2017
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    Auburn, WA, USA
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post

    6. Bees come and go. I miss my father. I would encourage you to cherish every mistake and every wise step your father makes.
    Thank you for the reminder. Its hard sometimes when emotions get involved, I got the hive so that we would have something to bond over. Again, thank you.

  11. #10
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    May 2017
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    Auburn, WA, USA
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pjigar View Post
    I think it is luck. Your old man did not mess up. Couple hours are enough for bees to realize that they are queenless.

    I have to give a lot more credit to bees as a democracy than to just believe its luck. I respectfully do not believe your view on this subject.

  12. #11
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    May 2017
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Bee View Post
    Are they his bees, or your bees?

    They are his...

    This morning he decided to add a brood box on my hive without telling me while im at work... So much for learning this week and seeing my bee colony grow this week. Oh well I guess

  13. #12
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    Apr 2006
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    Pepperell, MA.
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Bee View Post
    Have you noticed how shiny and white the bee jackets are on most of the youtubers giving out advice?

    "This is my first inspection, but one thing I've already noticed it that you should ALWAYS....."
    Love this and so true. I was guilty earlier. Nice post!
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

  14. #13
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverderwent View Post
    1. There are lots of ways to raise bees; what your father has done is one of them.
    2. The split should take. It's a good way to make increase.
    3. There is a learning curve with keeping bees; mistakes are part of becoming a good beekeeper. Learning to relax is part of becoming a better beekeeper.
    4. Even if the new queen was balled, there is likely at least one frame of eggs or very young larvae from which the original colony can make a new, new queen. If the new, new queen doesn't get mated, in five or six weeks or so you could recombine the hives.
    5. Your feelings about all this are pretty natural.
    6. Bees come and go. I miss my father. I would encourage you to cherish every mistake and every wise step your father makes.
    I just visited my Dad. 2nd week in a nursing home. Didn't remember my name. I reflected on his life lessons and extracted the truths even if the methods have changed (and will change again soon).

    Bees are a part of your lives. Treat them as such.
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

  15. #14
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    Oct 2011
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    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    My Dad has passed, got somewhat short changed by colon cancer. I always had respect for him and never referred to him as the ""old man".

    Cherish the time left. Perhaps each tend their own hive and amicably compare notes.

    Nobody is perfect and you will probably make many missteps as you learn to keep bees.
    Zone 3b. If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: The old man messed up his hive spilt. I need help!!

    I dunno, never seen the mesh get chewed through on a queen cage though.

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