Anyone Check for Mite Biting? - Page 2
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  1. #21

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Do you know how Alois tests this, Juhani?

    Iīm with Nordak, thinking the ants take away the mites into their nests but so far I saw only pollen taken away by ants.

    Well, I could test this with the garden colony I have, they are on a stand. But they are not tf and not resistant in any way.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    These days I'm lucky to even find a single mite in the hives. I've taken the mite cap broods removal too far to
    allow any mites to take a foot hold. In one way I'm happy for the thriving colonies in another I'm sad seeing the
    mites gradually going away as I have plenty more mite experiment to be done. Once you have the resistant bees they
    are here to stay when mixed in with the local bee population. Vsh alone will not be enough but once they are mixed in with
    the allogrooming and mite biting bees then the mites are really in big trouble. I have 4 Cordovan resistant queens coming this Wednesday to
    further carry out the mite testing experiment. Time to go back to the elder Russian beekeeper asking for some non-mite resistant queens in exchange for the mite resistant ones I have now. Poor man been trying all these years asking for help in whatever method he can to get rid of his mite problem without any success.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  4. #23

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Quote Originally Posted by SiWolKe View Post
    Do you know how Alois tests this, Juhani?
    No I donīt

    maybe here something

    Literaturnachweis:
    Buch "VARROARESISTENT" 1994 von Alois Wallner auch in englisch und italienisch
    Buch "IMKERN HEUTE" 1990 von Alois Wallner

  5. #24

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Hey Jeff, this scope is amazing!

    I even believe I have found a daughter mite with bitten feet but I was not able to make a pict.
    How do you do this?
    I have to try with my smartphone, my camera is not able to focus.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    west central Arkansas
    Posts
    1,080

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Hey Sibylle,

    I've never tried on a normal camera, but on my smart phone I just use the lens of the camera and hold it over the lens of the scope. You have to hold it as close to the lens as possible. It's sort of tricky. I use both hands to stabilize it while holding it over the lens. You'll see light coming over the viewing screen on your phone when you are over the scope lens. You'll have to adjust from there to get the image in focus. Hope this helps.

  7. #26

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    OK first try.

    V6.jpg

    V7.jpg

    V5.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #27

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    And more

    V1.jpg

    V2.jpg

    V3.jpg

  9. #28

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    One more

    V4.jpg

    I need to practise more.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Vestavia Hills, Al. USA
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    419

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordak View Post
    The best I can describe it, it was originating from either a front leg or the carapace. It was a milky white, the consistency of perhaps egg yolk by the looks of it. It appeared to be coming out of the mite. The mite was slowly moving it's legs, on it's back. It appeared as if it were dying.
    as I understand it, mites don't have a coagulant in their blood so they will bleed out if a leg is bitten off.

    I bought a less than $100 microscope at hobby lobby a few years back. it has a usb camera and a battery powered light source and I think it goes up to X1000.
    Started April Fools Day 2017

  11. #30
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    west central Arkansas
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    The first photo and last photo look like mite chewing to me.

    The rest are hard to tell. Try to get them all on their backs as in the first picture and it will give you a better picture of what you're looking at.

    I wonder if Erik Osterlund would take a look?

    as I understand it, mites don't have a coagulant in their blood so they will bleed out if a leg is bitten off.
    Yeah, I'm not sure what the substance was. It appeared to be originating from the mite. That was my best guess. Thanks.

  12. #31

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordak View Post
    The first photo and last photo look like mite chewing to me.

    The rest are hard to tell. Try to get them all on their backs as in the first picture and it will give you a better picture of what you're looking at.

    I wonder if Erik Osterlund would take a look?
    I tried not to damage them by turning them around. Just brushed them off the board and searched.
    I think those which look like the legs are cut off like with scissors are bitten.
    Iīm with you, first and last, but the third, too are bitten for sure.

    The picts are from the AMM descendants.

    Some shortened legs have the look of the milky stuff at the ends.

    I will make more tries and send some picts to Erik. Iīm still exchanging e-mails with him. He would be fascinated, I believe.

    Thanks again, Jeff,for opening this thread. I canīt imagine why there are so few people being interested in checking this.

    How do you plan to journal?

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Hey Sibylle,

    I've found you can take a piece of paper, tear off the corner and use that as a "scoop" to flip the mites over with no damage. Just be subtle in your movements and you shouldn't damage them any more than they potentially already are.

    In regard to the "why" more people aren't checking, I'm not certain. My guess is, based on my own experience and that of the couple of pictures you have posted, this may not be as rare of a trait as it seems.

    I've taken to chronicling it on the TF forum as I didn't want to maintain both posts...basically, I'm lazy. This is my way of keeping the journal of it I suppose.
    Season 5. TF.

  14. #33

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Thanks, Jeff, yes, good idea.

    Itīs a rare trait, Iīm sure. Alois Wallner needed 20 years to have colonies which do the mite biting to such extent they survive varroa infestation. Remember, my bees are tf for some years, they have to fight for themselves. Iīm not helping with treatments. I donīt know how successful they are thatīs why I want to journal this too.
    A co-worker saw that with his bees too, he is tf for 3 years now.

    I donīt think the bees develop this kind of behavior if they donīt need it for survival. IMHO.
    Comparing the defense behavior of my treated colony to the untreated there is a big difference in behavior, even if the bees come from the same bee yard and likely have some genes from tf drones.

    Yes I saw your posts. I donīt want to use your thread there to talk about my experience, as it is yours , so now I will use my thread here.

    By the way, Erik is very interested and wants me to take records of the elgons. This I will do.
    I monitor with counting, taking samples of brood cells and looking for mite biting and he thinks it just perfect.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    I look forward to following your progress!

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Now you have it to isolate the queen that has this trait to propagate more queens and bees. Solved the question of which queen to choose to make more daughter queens. Using the drones from this hive to do the I.I. process will speed up this mite biting continue traits. The Russians are known to have this traits to battle against the mites. Now the Italians and carnis also have it here using the I.I. process. Since the bee breeders already made their progress so far, I simply take advantage of this by incorporating these queens into my local apiary call it compatible bees. These queens are a bit expensive too. At least the traits are stabilized. If you can make your own I.I. gadget cheap then things will really speed up significantly. In a season 4 to 5 generation of daughters can be propagated, conservatively. Soon you will have the resistant bees!
    Last edited by beepro; 06-15-2017 at 01:22 AM.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  17. #36

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Thanks, Jeff, Iīm always enjoying what you post about your observations,
    I linked your picts and u-tube video into our forum.

    Beepro
    know what?
    Nobody tested here if tf bees change their attitudes themselves after some time without treatments and being survivors. All those theories but no real observations under normal natural circumstances ( I mean under normal environmental circumstances, not being isolated for example).

    At least the traits are stabilized.
    How do you know? There are many voices saying this changes in another locale and with local drones around.

    Who knows if bees just develop this trait being kept in a more natural way without all this unnatural managements we use to propagate traits which maybe the bees would have being left alone.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Dups!
    Last edited by beepro; 06-16-2017 at 01:30 AM.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    We are facing a mite situation that are more aggressive than the other strains here. I can only buy the queens that the
    sellers claimed that have worked in their local area against the mites and that they do not treat. You are correct, many only
    claimed but cannot verified that their queens are mite resistant. Come to my apiary I will test these queens to the max with
    heavily mites loaded hives to see their claims. The survivors I will propagate them. Our of 6 queen sellers tested only 1 is withstanding so far. That is why I still have bees to keep this season after those unnatural torturing last year. This is a test. It is only a test to see their resistant traits whether or not they can still live up to the reputation. This is call using the unnatural to test the natural that I will eventually let the bees do their natural things. To get to that level first I have to sacrifice a lot. And can only rely on what the seller of the queens claimed to be at their local level. You are trying to established the local bees by tackling the local environment. I'm trying to established the local with other claimed compatible genetics. I'm trying to speed things up a bit at the micro level so that the resistant traits can be established faster. If one round of queens made in a season then it will take me much longer to get to the results that I wanted--mite resistant here. In the shortest amount of time and unnatural strategy used, I try to get them here faster. Only time will tell whether this is working for as long as I have the bees to keep I'm a happy beekeeper. In the end we are trying to accomplish the same thing only going about it on different methods. I'm pushing my strategy at whatever cost be it a natural or unnatural way. Because in different locality things are a bit different in term of how we handle the bees. After the mite crashed hives 3 years ago, if I'm still using the same natural strategy that does not work here then there will be no more bees left for me to keep today. Whatever works for me may not work for other areas because my local bee environment and mites are a lot aggressive. My bee model is very simple. Compatible traits, testing for resistant both natural and unnatural, propagate from the success, evaluation at all level, proper adjustment/improvement, releasing to the natural way, and then repeat the process.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  20. #39

    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    This is call using the unnatural to test the natural that I will eventually let the bees do their natural things.
    I admit Iīm doing the same, using more resistant stock, not as thoroughly as you because of my lack of experience.

    I wish you success and the development of traits which stay in your bee yards forever.

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Anyone Check for Mite Biting?

    Yes, after they become natural they can fend for themselves. That day will come sooner than expected here. To make it more simple, I bought queens from beekeepers who have done it already. I'm simply bringing the resistant stocks to my local area by maintaining their presence. Because I've been doing it for 4 years already, I know how to manipulate the bees set up to take advantage of the four seasons. Each season will have a different bee issue to tackle from making the summer queens to beating the mites both me and the bees are at it. Making the summer queens is a bit tricky but can be done during a summer dearth too. At the same time to keep the mites population down with the brood break manipulation. One hive in a little bee experiment went almost 2 months (without any LWs issue) without any cap broods just the young nurse bees added from another clean hive. This clean hive don't have many mites in it. I will use this populous hive for the cells finisher later on. To take a short cut for more queen cells success, I also use the nicot laying cage system this season. Now that I have a taste of success, I can make as many QCs can I can with 600 brown cell cups that I bought. Along with it the small fridge converted to a QC incubator will be use. Out of 10 cells, from the 1st day capped cells, first trial run, 6 made it out. So yes, not all are natural as can be. The future of beekeeping will be like a science while improving on the methods used to further speed up the experimental process leading back to a natural way of beekeeping. Think of it as a circle that eventually everything will be complete/connected at the other end. In between it doesn't matter because it is still a work in progress leading back to a more natural way later on.


    Nicot eggs success:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by beepro; 06-17-2017 at 04:39 AM.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

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